§ 19. Mr. Tim Smithasked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will make a statement of his policy concerning the operation of road transport by British Railways.
§ 22. Mr. Foxasked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will make a statement of his policy concerning the operation of road transport by British Railways.
§ Mr. HoramOur policy is that British Rail should be able to use the Freightliners collection and delivery vehicles after transfer, as they are used now by the National Freight Corporation. The 231 other restrictions on the use of road transport by British Rail will continue.
§ Mr. SmithFollowing the withdrawal of the Government's amendment in the Standing Committee on the Transport Bill, will the Under-Secretary give an undertaking that, following what he has just said, British Rail's road haulage activities will be confined to those Freightliners activities which involve delivery and collection?
§ Mr. FoxIs the Minister aware that the road haulage industry is still highly suspicious of a Government and party that still have nationalisation in their programme? Therefore, will he be far more specific about the assurance that he has just given, because the industry feels that here is a move to switch traffic from the private sector of the haulage industry to an extended fleet owned under the nationalised sector?
§ Mr. HoramI can be absolutely specific. It is no part of our intention to do what the hon. Member has just said. The intention is perfectly plain. It is to allow Freightliners to carry on in the future as it has in the past. That is all.
§ Mr. SpearingIs it not a fact that, apart from the Freightliners road vehicles and the express parcels road vehicles, British Rail has now no road vehicles for the collection of what used to be ordinary goods traffic? As these vehicles were transferred to National Carriers, which now uses rail depots near to the railway but does not always use railway vehicles, will my hon. Friend see Sir Daniel Pettit to ascertain whether it is possible to put back on rail a lot of the traffic that was lost when the changes were made?
§ Mr. HoramI understand my hon. Friend's objective, which is to get more traffic on to rail, and we are attempting to do that in various ways.
§ Mr. FryWill the Under-Secretary remember the drubbing that he took in Standing Committee on this point? Before we get the Government's second thoughts on this matter, will he at least make sure that he and his right hon. Friend under- 232 stand what their own civil servants are proposing in this respect?
§ Mr. HoramI do not think that any of my hon. Friends who served on that Committee would agree that I got a drubbing there. Indeed, the drubbings that we managed to hand out to the Opposition from time to time in that Committee were far more numerous. There was only one vote, I think, during the entire proceedings. That was the first vote, and it was an accident. None the less. I think that we came through it very satisfactorily.