HC Deb 15 March 1978 vol 946 cc415-7
4. Mr Canavan

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the latest estimate of the number of children in Scotland receiving school meals; and how this compares with the corresponding figure for last year.

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Frank McElhone)

The provisional January census figure is 427,359, This was 47.4 per cent. of the pupils present, which compares with 51.2 per cent. in January 1977.

Mr. Canavan

Does my hon. Friend agree that the main reason for this decrease has been the 67 per cent. increase in the price of school meals and the fact that many parents do not realise that their children are now eligible for free school meals under the new regulations? Will he see to it, therefore, that parents are made aware of their eligibility for free school meals for their children? Will he also tell my good friend the Chancellor that he had better make an announcement in next month's Budget speech of a reversal of the Government's previous decision to withdraw the school meals subsidy, otherwise it will have disastrous consequences for the living standards of people, especially the children of working-class parents?

Mr. McElhone

I am aware that the Chancellor always listens to my hon. Friend. I have no doubt that that message will be getting across. I know that my hon. Friend has a deep interest in the problem. Recovery is taking place, as is shown by the fact that the January percentage of 47.4 is an increase from the 45.6 level reached in October 1977.

Mrs. Bain

Will the Minister also bear in mind that average family income in Scotland is substantially lower than it is elsewhere in the United Kingdom? [Hon. Members: "Not true."] Will he also take steps to ensure that, when people apply for their youngsters to have free school meals, there is no discriminatory process which means that the children are subjected to pressures within the schools?

Mr. McElhone

The hon. Lady has developed a remarkable consistency for providing inaccurate figures. She has continued with that theme today. What she said is untrue. The uptake of free meals rose to 17.3 per cent. in January 1978, and this is the highest level that it has ever reached. This is due mainly to the recommendation from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to schoolmasters to publicise the facts of the matter, and every child will get a note about the potential availability of free meals. That is to the credit not only of COSLA but of the headmasters and staff of our schools.

Mr. Skinner

Will my hon. Friend accept, however, from an Englishman, I think—one can never be sure about these matters—that discrimination takes place and that there is no device or plan yet implemented in any school which is foolproof and which prevents the separation of the sheep from the goats? There is only one answer to this problem. Means tests have to be tolerated by many adults in this country and in Scotland, but, in my view, for children they are horrifying and should be abolished. Let us get rid of school meals charges completely and have a transfer of resources, as we said in the manifesto in 1974.

Mr. McElhone

As my hon. Friend says, he thinks that he is an Englishman. I do not think that anyone has any doubts about that. There was a genuine concern in the past about the fact that for free school meals some local authorities issued tickets that were different from tickets for paid meals. As far as I know, local authorities in Scotland have ensured that children who receive free school meals get tickets of the same colour as those given to children whose parents pay. If that is not so and my hon. Friend knows something about Scotland that I do not know, I shall certainly check the matter and report to him.