Government

HC Deb 09 March 1978 vol 945 cc1587-9

5. Mr. Molyneaux

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will consider proposals for improving the machinery of the Government of Northern Ireland.

Mr. Mason

Various improvements have been made in the last two years to the machinery of government for Northern Ireland, but I am always willing to consider any proposals for further improvements.

Mr. Molyneaux

If the Government will not restore devolved government to Northern Ireland and will not reinstate effective local government, will the Secretary of State introduce improvements to the present processes for governing Northern Ireland and remove the defects, of which we have had two examples this week?

Mr. Mason

As the hon. Gentleman and the House know, my aim for Northern Ireland is a partnership Administration, and I am trying still to keep on that course. On improving the machinery of government, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will recognise that we have increased time in the Northern Ireland Committee, we have extended debates on the Floor of the House, and we now have more Great Britain Bills applying to Northern Ireland. In addition, we have increased consultative time on draft orders. We are constantly making improvements.

Mr. Neave

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we accept in principle what the hon. Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Molyneaux) has just said, but that in the short term a new structure for local government and regional administration should be devised in Northern Ireland to make it more responsive to public opinion? In looking at improvements in the machinery of government, will he ensure that his junior Ministers do not seek to impose domestic policies on questions such as education without adequate consultation?

Mr. Mason

I take the point made by the hon. Gentleman. My noble Friend who is responsible for education in Northern Ireland and I have gone to great lengths to make sure that there is proper consultation. We must not bow too quickly to very strong pressure groups. We have allowed them a great deal of leeway and latitude. However, proper consultation is taking place on the gradual changes in education in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Kilfedder

Does the right hon. Gentleman know that the Ulster people believe that he and the Government are treating Northern Ireland like some piece of colonial territory miles and miles away and that that belief is given substance to by the fact that last Monday we had a debate on security which, through some gentleman's agreement, was supposed to last for only four hours? That is disgraceful, when we also had a number of orders, including one on appropriation, which had to be dealt with in an hour and a half.

Mr. Mason

The hon. Gentleman is right in saying that the appropriate order took only an hour and a half, but that was because of the activities of the hon. Gentleman and his friends. There was an agreement for four hours' debate. The debate should have terminated at 8.15, but it went on until 10 o'clock. One of the reasons for that was the almost dishonourable behaviour of some of the hon. Gentlemen who participated in the debate. It is a good job that Ulstermen did not see the hon. Gentleman at work on that day.

Mr. Powell

Without wishing to render the excitement greater, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman agrees that in similar cases in future we shall have to consider carefully the utility of a business motion which would preserve a certain minimum length of time for an order as important as the Appropriation Act? In saying that, may I ask him to realise that I am making no criticism of the Administration for what happened on Monday?

Mr. Mason

That is a valid point. The right hon. Gentleman will realise that most of his hon. Friends were not fully conversant with the procedures of the House, and having taken the security debate to 10 o'clock they were depriving themselves of time to discuss the appropriation order. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends will appreciate that we did in the end allow a full day to discuss the question of security.