HC Deb 08 March 1978 vol 945 cc1405-7
4. Mr. Joseph Dean

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will consider banning sales of council houses by local authorities where there is a known housing shortage.

The Minister for Housing and Construction (Mr. Reginald Freeson)

Not at present. But I am concerned that some councils appear to be selling indiscriminately and disregarding local housing needs. I shall be ready to amend the general consent if circumstances warrant it.

Mr. Dean

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of these post-war houses are being sold at the give-away price of £5,000 and that to replace them by new houses costs £70,000 over the 60-year repayment period? Will he look into the situation in Leeds where the council is continuing to sell council houses although there is a waiting list of over 20,000 families?

Mr. Freeson

I shall certainly examine further the figures quoted by my hon. Friend. I am rather concerned at the extent to which indiscriminate policies are being pursued in some parts of the country. I shall watch the situation closely with a view to action, if necessary.

Mr. Michael Morris

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that every survey that has been carried out has demonstrated that about 80 per cent. of all young people want to own their own homes? Are Conservative-controlled councils to understand that the Minister is now threatening that the Government will take action against them if they meet that need?

Mr. Freeson

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should introduce a little coolness into his assessment of need in this area and should use his good offices to get local authorities with which he has contact to look at the detailed pattern of housing need and demand in their areas and match their action to that, and not to preconceived indiscriminate policies such as are advocated by him.

Mr. Ovenden

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Medway Borough Council is not only selling houses to sitting tenants but is embarking on an advertising campaign to persuade people living in flats and maisonettes who wish to buy houses to obtain transfers? Does he regard that as consistent with the policy of selling houses to sitting tenants and as fair to those who will have to continue to live for ever longer periods in unsuitable conditions because the houses that they need for their families have been sold off?

Mr. Freeson

This is an important matter not only to Medway but to local authorities generally. One of the considerations that we have to keep in mind—and I hope that local authorities of whatever political persuasion will have it in mind in considering this matter—is the housing management of total estates, and the transfer of families from blocks of flats to houses which have gardens in which their kids can play. There is an indication that if present policies are per-sued indiscriminately certain blocks of flatted estates will be turned into ghettoes out of which families will not be able to move.

Mr. Rossi

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that no council may sell below the cost of the house in the first place, and that a 20 per cent. discount on current market value provides a substantial capital and revenue gain to local authorities? Will he, therefore, allow local authorities, as of right, to sell at a 30 per cent. discount, which would still show a considerable gain to the taxpayer and ratepayer and give the local authority tenant the mobility that he does not otherwise enjoy?

Mr. Freeson

First, I have to remind the hon. Gentleman—I thought that he was a Minister in the Department of the Environment at the time—that the 30 per cent. discount introduced by some local authorities was authorised by the then Government at a time of steeply rising inflation in house prices. That was the reason given at the time, but that is not the position now. Secondly, the figuring that he has quoted is not strictly accurate. The 20 per cent. discount is a general rule. I believe that there are some circumstances, unfortunately, where the rule about sale below cost does not arise, and we are giving consideration to that. There is plenty of evidence to show that there is little capital gain. Most council house sales do not take place on the basis of building society mortgages. That form of sale applies to very few.