HC Deb 01 March 1978 vol 945 cc444-7
12. Mr. Nicholas Winterton

asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will include representatives of motorists in the consultations on his plans to change over from miles to kilometres.

32. Mr. Knox

asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will include representatives of motorists in the consultations on his plans to change over from miles to kilometres.

Mr. William Rodgers

I am making no such plans at the moment, but I am sure that any consultation would include motoring organisations.

Mr. Winterton

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Will he state clearly to the House that there is no EEC obligation upon this country to change over from miles to kilometres? Is he aware that there appears to be no commercial or other advantage for the change? Will he tell the House why he has persistently failed fully to answer questions on the Government's policy in this matter, despite the many questions posed to him in the House and elsewhere?

Mr. Rodgers

I am not aware that I have persistently refused to answer any question. The only questions on this matter that I am aware of were the ones asked before and at the last Transport Question Time, and I did my best to meet the wishes of the House and the anxieties that were expressed. It is perfectly clear that we have no direct obligation under EEC regulations to change from miles to kilometres, but a decision was made in 1968 to go metric. That was supported by subsequent Governments. That is the background to the discussion that is taking place. I have made it quite clear that I am not proposing to take any steps in that direction in the foreseeable future.

Mr. Knox

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that he should embark upon the consultations as a matter of urgency in order to get a decision one way or another rather than just putting it off?

Mr. Rodgers

I confess that I have other things to do. I thought that that was the view of the House as well.

Mr. Roy Hughes

If there is no pressure from the EEC on this matter, will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that he will listen to the authentic voice of the British people?

Mr. Rodgers

I shall listen to the authentic voice of the British people, but, with respect to my hon. Friend, it is not always easy to know which that is. I must say to the House that, however passionately hon. Members feel about the matter, there is a younger generation that is a great deal more relaxed about the question of metrication and kilometres.

Mr. Cormack

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if he agrees to stick to miles I shall buy him a pint?

Mr. Robin F. Cook

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the main point for going metric in 1968 was to harmonise in respect of export markets? Can he arrange to publish in the Official Report a list of those products which are exported and which have to be measured in miles or kilometres?

Mr. Norman Fowler

Is not the position that there is no obligation to change from the mile and that overwhelmingly—surely the Secretary of State accepts this—the public do not want such a change? Given that fact, why does not the Secretary of State make it clear that the Government are opposed to any change and tell the Commission that no change will take place?

Mr. Rodgers

Because I think it would be quite dishonest to say that. I rest exactly where I rested on the previous occasion, that this is a matter in which we have an obligation. I have to carry out consultations and to form a view. I think that is a proper way to proceed. I have also said—although it is not a matter for me—that if the House chooses to debate the matter I shall be glad to do so.

19. Mr. McCrindle

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will summarise the practical advantages of changing from miles to kilometres.

Mr. William Rodgers

No, Sir. This is something to be assessed in the light of consultation.

Mr. McCrindle

Will the Secretary of State re-read the Question, which asks for something that, on the face of it, seems quite simple, namely, a summary of the advantages of moving from miles to kilometres? If, by implication, there is none, why is the right hon. Gentleman dithering before coming to the House with the obvious conclusion?

Mr. Rodgers

We have already had a Question on this subject. I thought that it was a widely held view that on a matter of this importance there should be general consultation with the public. When we have the results of that public consultation we shall be able to make a decision to put before the House for approval.

Mr. Jay

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the 1968 decision to which he referred earlier was taken largely on the ground of the partial use of the metric system in the United States? Is he further aware that the United States uses miles and not kilometres?

Mr. Rodgers

I am aware of that. It seems to be a further reason for our having full consultation in due course before reaching a decision.