§ 5. Mr. Blakerasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent communications he has had with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics' Government about Soviet activities in Africa.
§ Dr. OwenI discussed African problems, among other international issues, with Mr. Gromyko in New York on 1st June.
§ Mr. BlakerWhat penalty will the Soviet Union suffer if it continues its aggressive activities in Africa?
§ Dr. OwenThe penalty will be the growing disillusionment of many of the African countries about the Soviet Union's intentions there. This is already 1373 becoming evident as it becomes more obvious that its contribution is mainly one of supplying arms, that its contribution in terms of aid and development and technical assistance is negligible and derisory compared with the contribution of the Western world, and as more and more African countries see that their position of non-alignment will be challenged if the Soviet Union becomes too involved in their internal affairs.
§ Mr. Alexanzler W. LyonDoes not the scale of the massacre of black civilians in Cassinga by the South African forces contrast strongly with the absence of any protest from the Opposition Benches? Is not the hypocrisy of that side of the House indicated by suggestions that people who are looking for justice and have to turn to arms, and to ask the Russians for those arms, are committing some kind of offence, when South Africa and Rhodesia continue with their restrictive policies from white minority regimes?
§ Dr. OwenWhen it has been necessary to condemn violence I have condemned it from whatever source it has come. I agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that we shall try to follow a nonselective policy. The need for Africa is to avert the current increase in violence in many African countries and the threat of chaos which comes in the wake of violence and the breakdown of good administration and law and order.
§ Mr. AmeryIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Prime Minister's statement in New York that we should not allow differences with the Soviet Union over Africa to interfere with the process of detente will be regarded as a green light by those in Moscow to go ahead with their adventurism in Africa and in South Arabia? Is he further aware that there is a widespread impression that instead of the Prime Minister stiffening President Carter's backbone he has been hanging on to his coat tails? Does he agree that while turning the other cheek might be the highest manifestation of individual virtue, when it is practised by Ministers who are the trustees of nations it is a sign of either irresponsibility or impotence?
§ Dr. OwenThe right hon. Gentleman would do well to read the Prime Minister's speech. If the right hon. 1374 Gentleman were able to show the same degree of understanding of the complexity of the African issue and the complexity of detente and East-West affairs as the Prime Minister shows, he would not be sitting on the Opposition Back Benches.
§ Mr. FauldsDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to ensure Soviet interference in Africa—which appears to be Conservative Party policy—is to force the liberation movements into Soviet dependence for political support and hard supplies?
§ Dr. OwenI agree that it is important that African countries which are intensely nationalistic should be encouraged to remain genuinely non-aligned. One of the ways of doing that is not always to leap immediately to cut off aid and diplomatic contacts, but to try to persuade them of the virtues of our democratic Western system. We are doing that successfully in Africa. It is complete nonsense to lose sight of the fact that Western influence in Africa is probably stronger than it has been over the last five years because of our readiness to support genuine liberation movements.
§ Mr. ThorpeDoes the Foreign Secretary consider this to be the right moment to test the intentions of the Soviet Union, to see whether it will back a ceasefire across all the frontiers of Rhodesia as a prelude to useful negotiations with all parties?
§ Dr. OwenI think that the Soviet Union would say that it has no involvement, but we know that it does supply arms to liberation movements and that that has given the Soviet Union a great deal of influence. Since we cannot supply arms, it is important that we should try to offset that influence by humanitarian assistance and other measures. A ceasefire in Africa across all boundaries would be in total keeping with the charter of the Organisation of African Unity, which involves a respect for the existing map of Africa. That is one of the things that we have fought for in the Horn of Africa and in Zaire and that we are trying to maintain in Namibia and Rhodesia.
§ Mr. LuceDoes the Secretary of State feel that detente is indivisible and that 1375 Soviet policies in Africa should be seen within the wider context of Western relations with the Soviet Union? Has not the time come not only for the British Government but for the Western world to show a more robust approach—
§ Mr. LitterickLike what?
§ Mr. Luce—by, for example, saying clearly to the Soviet Union that if it persists with its destructive policies in Africa we cannot go on providing it with privileged credit facilities or grain?
§ Dr. OwenI agree that detente is indivisible. I have said so on many occasions. I do not believe that one can exclude from East-West relations the type of adventurism that we have seen in Africa. I have never denied that. The British Government have maintained—and have won great support throughout the world for their view—that we should be wary of thinking that African problems are exclusively an East-West issue. They are not. They are primarily African in context.
I turn to the question of what action one should take. I think that a measured response against actions which are damaging to detente is necessary. One of the measured and serious responses of the Western world was to decide, within the NATO Alliance, to increase defence expenditure—much as we did not wish to do so—because we were facing steady and persistent increases in Warsaw Pact forces.