HC Deb 27 June 1978 vol 952 cc1208-10
13. Mr. Warren

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the progress of the "Two-way street" sales between the United States of America and the United Kingdom.

Dr. Gilbert

The position remains substantially as I set it out in my reply to the hon. Member on 6th April. The United States Government are playing their part in the implementation of the 1975 memorandum of understanding on reciprocal defence procurement. United Kingdom firms have been increasing their efforts to win orders in the United States and sonic successes have already been achieved.

Mr. Warren

With respect to the Minister, I must point out that he did not tell me anything more on 6th April than he has told me now. Why is it that this House is not allowed to know what is available publicly in the United States to Members of Congress about precisely what has been sold each way across the Atlantic? Why should we not know the truth?

Dr. Gilbert

We have been at pains to show that our disclosure procedures with respect to these memoranda of understanding have marched step by step with those in the United States Congress. If the hon. Gentleman has information that is on public record on the other side of the Atlantic, which has not been disclosed in this country, I shall be happy to examine it.

Mr. Molloy

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in addition to the two-way programme between this country and the United States of America, many people in this country are disturbed at the activities of private entrepreneurial manufacturers who, as it appears from BBC programmes, can easily sell arms made in one country to another and they can then be used against the interests of the country which made them? Will he examine this matter and deal with it when he discusses the subject with NATO and American officials?

Dr. Gilbert

If my hon. Friend is referring to the BBC programme which was put out last night—

Mr. Molloy

indicated assent.

Dr. Gilbert

I am glad to have my hon. Friend's assent. That programme dealt more with the activities of an international arms salesman than with a manufacturer of armaments. There is a certain amount of private enterprise manufacture of arms in this country, but all exports of arms from this country are under Government control and must have an export licence issued by Her Majesty's Government. We control these sales very closely.

Mr. Ian Lloyd

If the agreement is working as well as the Minister of State suggests, in both civil and defence aspects, why was it necessary for British Airways to borrow £34 million from the Japanese to buy a jumbo 747?

Dr. Gilbert

I think that the hon. Gentleman is misinformed. The memorandum of understanding on which his hon. Friend's Question was based related merely to military procurement—the "Two-way street" sales.

Mr. MacFarquhar

Since the sales of weapons to the United States may not be going as well as my right hon. Friend would like, will he say whether his Department is considering the sale of arms to the People's Republic of China? If it is, what kind of arms does it think would be acceptable to sell to that country?

Dr. Gilbert

I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree that the subject of sales to the People's Republic of China hardly arises on a Question relating to the sale of arms to the United States. As for the progress under the "Two-way street" arrangement, I would inform the House that, although we are far from complacent, I am wholly satisfied with the good faith which the United States Government and United States manufacturers are exercising to see that the memorandum is brought fully into effect.