Fishing Industry (Hansard, 21 June 1978)

§ 17. Mr. Sproat
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the latest situation in the fishing industry.

Mr. Milan
My right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will be making a statement to the House later this week on the Council of Ministers' meeting which he and I attended in Luxembourg yesterday and which is still in progress.

§ Mr. Sproat
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that hon. Members from all parts of the House strongly support the fight which his right hon. Friend is making on behalf of justice for the British fishing industry? Does he also realise that it would be far more welcome to the House and the industry as a whole to have no agreement now rather than a bad agreement now, and that if no agreement is reached we look forward to the Minister coming to the House and announcing a comprehensive package of non-discriminatory conservation measures to apply in British waters as soon as possible?

§ Mr. Millan
No agreement was reached yesterday about the internal regime. I was present at the meeting. Today's agenda relates to a number of important detailed matters, including conservation. We must wait to see what comes out of today's meeting, but we have already said that in the absence of Community conservation measures we feel free and intend 459 to introduce further national conservation measures.

§ Mr. Grimond
Is the Minister aware that the whole House will congratulate the Government on the stand they are taking on fishing? Will he confirm that they have no intention of recognising the so-called agreement which was said to have been made in Berlin in our absence?

Mr. Milan
There is no question of our recognising that so-called agreement. It is impossible to have an agreement without our participation, and informal understandings are not recognised by us.

§ Mr. Robert Hughes
Is my right hon. Friend aware that Scottish fishermen's leaders—namely, Gilbert Buchan and Willie Hay—last night said how much they apreciate the work done by my right hon. Friend and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food? Is he further aware that they believe—this view is widely shared, and I share it myself—that we may have to go further than nondiscriminatory unilateral measures if we are to save certain parts of the Scottish fishing fleet, especially that engaged in herring fishing?

§ Mr. Millan
I know the views of the industry on conservaion because I met the two gentlemen mentioned and many others in Luxembourg yesterday. As I have said, we must await the outcome of today's meeting, where these matters are specifically under discussion. We have stated, however, that we have the right, which we intend to exercise, to introduce national conservation measures if we consider that to be necessary. Of course, there are a number of areas where we consider them necessary.

§ Mr. Watt
Does the Secretary of State recognise that there are now considerable shoals of herring to be found off the East Coast? As he imposes a ban on West Coast herring fishing, will he allow a gradual lifting of the ban on East Coast herring fishing so that the factories round the Scottish coast may have some supplies to keep their doors open?

§ Mr. Millan
I do not think I can promise that because the scientific evidence, which is accepted by the industry, confirms that we should continue with the North Sea ban at least until the end of this year. It would be foolish to attempt 460 to negotiate minor quotas for different parts of Scotland. For example, the Shetlanders have asked me for that. Such quotas would be the thin end of a very large wedge and would be detrimental to Scottish fishermen.

§ Mr. Buchanan-Smith
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that off the West Coast the haddock quota of 9,000 tons is nearly exhausted and that there is therefore liable to be a diversion of effort to the North Sea for the rest of the year? Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the Government have in mind measures to cope with that increased concentration of effort in the North Sea?

Mr. Milan
We are already talking to the industry about that problem. There was a meeting last week. Something will have to be done if we are not to fish out the year's quota long before the end of the year. Both sides recognise the problem, but, as the hon. Gentleman will know, solutions are not very easy.

§ Mr. Sillars
Does not the Secretary of State agree that the worst service we could do to the fishing industry would be to repeat the performance of the Conservative Government which negotiated entry—that is, to pretend that any national fishing agreement reached now would provide a long-term safeguard for the industry? Is it not the case that, although we can employ national discrimination now, in 1982 the superiority of the Community legislation will be the overriding factor?

Mr. Milan
Unless, as I hope, we are able to negotiate something better, by 1982 the rest of the Community will literally be able to fish up to our beaches without national restrictions. That was the mistake of the Conservative Government, but I have no intention of compounding that mistake by agreeing to an internal regime settlement which is unsatisfactory for the United Kingdom generally and for Scotland in particular.

§ Mr. Donald Stewart
Will the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that if the suggested ban on West Coast herring fishing is eventually imposed he will use his influence to secure exemption for the one or two vessels that confine themselves to drift-net fishing?

Mr. Milan
I shall certainly look at that problem, which arose last year as 461 well. There were difficulties even then about getting these very limited exceptions to the rule. I do not want to say any more at this moment because the discussions are literally going on today, and I should like to know what has happened at them. However, we have an interest in excluding, for example, the Clyde fishery, which is a significant local fishery, from any ban on the West Coast. We have been talking about that in Luxembourg today. I should like to consider what the right hon. Gentleman has said when we see what happens today.

§ Mr. Teddy Taylor
Is it not rather silly of the Secretary of State, in his last reply, to destroy the unanimity in the House about the importance of arriving at a satisfactory agreement, particularly bearing in mind that if he wishes to talk about the regional negotiations there are many people who wonder why on earth a Labour Government failed apparently even to attempt to resolve the matter in the alleged renegotiation in Dublin? Does the Secretary of State agree that the important thing is to arrive at a satisfactory permanent solution? As long as the Government go along these lines, they will get full backing from the House.
On a particular point, can the Secretary of State give us any guidance as to what will be the position of Scottish vessels fishing off Norway and the Faroes when the agreements between the EEC and Norway and the Farces terminate quite shortly?

Mr. Milian
Again, these are matters which are literally being discussed today. I would expect, however, that if there is no more substantive agreement there will at least be some kind of roll-over arrangement. But I honestly cannot answer that particular point today. On the first point, we are grateful for the Opposition's support of the Government's efforts. I do not know whether it arises from a guilty conscience, but we are grateful for their support.