HC Deb 20 June 1978 vol 952 cc198-200
9. Dr. Hampson

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the estimated overall cost to public funds within which her discussions with the local authorities on grants for 16-yearolds are taking place.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to his Question on 25th May.

Dr. Hampson

Does the Secretary of State recognise the concern in all parts of the House at the pitifully small scope of discretionary awards at a time when the age group is expanding? Is she quite certain that her priority is right in launching this new scheme of awards rather than coping with the lottery of discretionary awards in these vocational areas, which would help young people to get jobs?

Mrs. Williams

I notice that on 10th June the hon. Member attacked my proposals as being "a useless bribe". He went on to say that he would give himself the priority of straightening out the lottery with regard to further education awards. However, I think that the hon. Member sounded off without studying what was proposed. What is proposed is specifically help for those staying on in further education to pursue vocational courses as well as those staying on at school. I advise the hon. Member to study my proposals before condemning them.

Mr. James Lomond

Take 100 lines.

Mr. Christopher Price

Has my right hon. Friend noticed that the Conservative Party merely talks about these matters but that this Government are the first Government to do something about them? Is she aware that from many Government supporters there is a great welcome for her extension of this scheme to sixth formers?

Dr. Hampson

That is the point.

Mr. Price

Has my right hon. Friend noticed that the city of Sheffield, a Labour-controlled city, is one of the first to get on with it? We in this House do not want to see our sixth forms become a sort of class institution, and this is one of the very best ways of making sure that everyone has the chance to take advantage of sixth form education.

Mrs. Williams

I agree wholly with my hon. Friend, and for two reasons. The first is that we have one of the lowest staying-on rates in Western Europe, and that seems to me to be appalling. One reason for it is the lack of financial support for young people after the age of 16. The second is that what has been described by the hon. Member for Ripon (Dr. Hampson) as "a useless bribe", when applied to students in higher education, is normally welcomed in all quarters of the country. We are simply proposing to extend what is available in higher education to further education, where we desperately need more trained and skilled people.

Mr. Edwin Wainwright

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is still a crime to allow children to leave school at the age of 16 without jobs to go to? Therefore, whatever grants are made to children, will she make certain that they are high enough to encourage them to continue at school until we can find jobs for them?

Mrs. Williams

The rate is under discussion between me and the local education authorities. I hope to bring about a position where a young person can make a free choice between further education and leaving school rather than being forced to make that choice because of financial considerations.