HC Deb 07 June 1978 vol 951 cc180-1
10. Mr. Charles Irving

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will review the operation of the traffic commissioner system.

Mr. Horam

No, Sir.

Mr. Irving

Does the Minister agree that the traffic commissioners' system is totally undemocratic, and its revision is needed to strengthen the views of the passengers and the taxpayers, who are so frequently ignored totally?

Mr. Horam

The hon. Member will be aware that the Transport Bill, which has completed its stages in this House, is going through another place. In that Bill we have revised the role of the traffic commissioners, and, in fact, we have suggested that they should take account of the policies and plans of the county councils which represent the taxpayers, as well as the consumers. Therefore, we are meeting the sort of point that the hon. Member has in mind.

Mr. Bradley

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that Bill does not go far enough? Will he come to Leicester to see for himself the problems that have been created and that are being preserved by the system that he is defending?

Mr. Horam

The problem of Leicester, of which I am well aware because my hon. Friend has ventilated it, quite rightly, on a number of occasions, would be solved more directly by proper arrangements between the municipal operators and the National Bus Company. This is the heart of the matter. To go further and to give more power to the county councils over the traffic commissioners would be very bad for bus services—certainly in other parts of the country.

Mr. Arthur Jones

In the context of what the Minister has just said, clearly there is an intention of the Government that responsibility shall lie with the county councils. If that is accepted Government policy, to what extent should the traffic commissioners be allowed to have power to override the county councils? Is the Minister in a position to give an assurance to the House that the traffic commissioners are not discriminating in favour of the National Bus Company on scheduled and other routes?

Mr. Horam

The commissioners are certainly not discriminating in favour of the company. They operate an independent check on what the county councils are doing. In view of what some Conservative-controlled county councils have done to bus services in the past two or three years, I am delighted that the traffic commissioners will continue in being.