§ 13. Mr. Canavanasked the Secretary of State for Transport whether his Department will undertake a study of the effect of increased fares on public transport.
§ Mr. William RodgersNot unless I can be persuaded that there is something new to be learnt.
§ Mr. CanavanIs my right hon. Friend aware that the recent 15 per cent. increase in Scottish bus fares means that in some cases it is cheaper to travel by car rather than by bus, so that the bus fare increases cause a reduction in the number of passengers, which in turn causes either cuts in the bus services or further fare increases? Is it not about time the Government took action to stop this vicious circle, which is threatening to cripple public transport in many parts of the country?
§ Mr. RodgersMy hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the hardship that can be caused by rising fares. He knows that it is a matter that has been very much in the Government's mind during the whole of the counter-inflation policy. I am glad to say that the railways are proof against rises in fares. However, we must do our best to ensure that the sort of increases to which, perhaps, we have become accustomed do not become the pattern in the years ahead. We must try to keep fares down.
§ Mr. Michael LathamMay we have a study of the effect of reduced fares on public transport in some areas, because a fare cut might increase revenue and mileage?
§ Mr. RodgersIndeed it might. There is no simple answer, but it is true that on the buses—and it is certainly true on the railways—there has not been a loss of passengers. It is equally true that where British Rail has been able to experiment—this applies to bus companies as well—with lower and concessionary fares it has often found them popular and has earned additional revenue.
§ Mr. HefferWill my right hon. Friend carry out a study in a number of urban areas with a view to suggesting that there should be free fares in certain urban areas to reduce the number of individual cars being used and increasing the use of public transport? Will he consider that approach? There are many of us who have believed for a long time that that is part of the solution to the transport problem.
§ Mr. RodgersI have always made it clear that I am much in favour of experiments of the sort that my hon. Friend suggests, provided that those who are responsible for them recognise the risks that are involved and are prepared to cover the loss of revenue that might occur. As he knows, buses are often operated by municipal bus authorities, which are entitled to undertake the sort of experiment that my hon. Friend has described if they so wish.