HC Deb 07 June 1978 vol 951 cc173-5
4. Mr. Ovenden

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he next intends to meet the chairman of British Railways.

9. Mr. Madel

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he next plans to meet the chairman of British Railways.

16. Mr. Neubert

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he next intends to meet the chairman of the British Railways Board.

Mr. William Rodgers

I met him this morning and I expect to meet him again tomorrow.

Mr. Ovenden

Does my right hon. Friend share the concern expressed by Sir Peter Parker in British Rail's annual report about how the views of the Price Commission on the fares of South-Eastern commuters can be reconciled with the financial objectives placed by the Government on the British Railways Board? When my right hon. Friend next meets Sir Peter Parker, what view will he express to the chairman about the way in which the two can be reconciled?

Mr. Rodgers

I appreciate the concern which my hon. Friend has shown consistently about the problem of commuter fares, and I think that Sir Peter Parker comments on this very fairly in his annual report. It is for the Board to find a solution to the problem. The House has agreed the level which its subsidy should represent, and it must work within that total. If it does not increase fares in one area, it will have to recoup them in some other.

Mr. Madel

As Sir Peter Parker has described the road versus rail argument as "sterile", would not the Minister expect Sir Peter not to allow British Rail to go in for anti-heavy commercial vehicle advertising, which it is now doing, in view of the employment provided in that industry and the exports gained by it?

Mr. Rodgers

There is a later Question on advertising. However, I have often said—and I repeat—that I do not think that there is any advantage in "knocking" copy in the transport industry or parts of the industry. Both the public sector and the private sector have a part to play, and I think that it is best for everyone to get on with it.

Mr. Neubert

Does the Minister accept that hard-pressed commuters from my constituency and others in the South-East contribute valuable services to our capital city, especially those working in the City of London, and wish to know what the future holds for them? Which of the chairman's three options, which are not wholly a matter for the Board alone, does the Minister himself support? Is it to be a special grant, extra high fares, or deteriorating services?

Mr. Rodgers

Certainly it cannot be additional financial help for the railways, and I am surprised to hear the hon. Member suggest that that might be the course to follow. British Rail must operate within the ceiling that has been set for it and earn the revenue where it can by the fares that it charges. It is not an easy problem. But there is a very similar problem facing other commercial enterprises in both the private and public sectors.

Mr. Hoyle

When my right hon. Friend meets the chairman of British Rail, will he ask him what measures his Board is taking to attract more passengers to areas such as North-East Lancashire, especially where the rolling stock is badly in need of renewal?

Mr. Rodgers

I was very glad that the chairman reported in his annual report that there was an increase in the volume of passengers carried in 1977 over 1976. That will be welcomed on all sides of the House. As it is possible for British Rail to renew its stock, I think that travelling by rail will become more attractive and meet my hon. Friend's needs.

Mr. Adley

Has the Secretary of State discussed with the chairman the attitude of the rail unions towards political expulsions from the unions? Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that he agrees with the Prime Minister that no one's political views, however objectionable, should be used as an excuse for depriving a man of his job? Therefore, will the right hon. Gentleman support Sir Peter Parker in whatever management decisions he may feel it necessary to take on this difficult issue?

Mr. Rodgers

I agree with the hon. Member that it is a difficult issue, but I am sure that it is clear in the mind of Mr. Sidney Weighell, for example, that it would be wrong to expel anyone or make him lose his job for political reasons. Equally, I think that the railway unions have been very concerned—and rightly so—with the danger of racialism on the railways. There is a great measure of racial harmony, and I think that we want to keep it that way.