HC Deb 31 July 1978 vol 955 cc19-21
11. Mr. Edwin Wainwright

asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether he is now satisfied with the level of investment in the nationalised energy industries in the United Kingdom.

Dr. J. Dickson Mabon

I am sure that the present level of investment in the United Kingdom nationalised energy industries, now running at an annual rate of some £.1.8 billion, is right. For the future, the hon. Member will find projections of possible investment require- ments up to the year 2000 in Energy Commission Paper No. 7.

Mr. Wainwright

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he is satisfied that we are developing an integrated energy policy? Does he call together, when he has these discussions, the chairmen of all the energy industries to make certain that everyone knows what is intended? Does he not think it crazy that we should spend so much money on gas and oil, consuming it in great quantities in the next two or three decades, when we have an abundance of coal which is not being used to the extent that it should be?

Dr. Mabon

My hon. Friend is, I know, a fair man. He will admit that my right hon. Friend has been outstanding in his attempts to try to bring together, not only informally but formally through the Energy Commission, the chairmen of the nationalised industries and all those possibly concerned with an integrated energy policy. I hope that the energy policy Green Paper is the first of several on the subject.

Mr. Dodsworth

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that one of the best ways to achieve a satisfactory level of investment is by a proper increase in retained earnings and profits, and that, while some of us welcome the progress that has been made in that direction, we should be a great deal more satisfied with progress if we could be satisfied that there were not frequent changes in accounting and depreciation policy which masked the real attitudes and achievements of the industry concerned?

Dr. Mabon

The last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is an interesting comment not only on the nationalised industries but on industry in general. In reply to the first part, I assure him that we try very hard in that regard.

Mr. George Rodgers

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a widely-held opinion in the mining industry that many coal mines were closed prematurely at the time when we switched over largely to oil for industry? Would it not be fair to ask for some investment to explore the possibility of reopening pits?

Dr. Mabon

I think that with hindsight —with some people, with foresight—almost everyone would agree with my hon. Friend that the rundown of the coal mines in the 1950s and 1960s was a great error and something that we certainly must not repeat. But "The Plan for Coal" is a witness to the industry of the intention of this Government at any rate to keep coal in its proper place.

Mr. Tom King

Where substantial public investment is involved, is it not right that there should be the clearest public accountability? I reinforce what my hon. Friend the Member for Hertfordshire, South-West (Mr. Dodsworth) said about the need for uniformity of accounting standards. Is it not unbelievably dilatory of the Department and the Secretary of State that there should still be no financial target for the British Gas Corporation so that the chairman is setting his own target?

Dr. Mabon

I have already acknowledged the importance of the point made in the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. The point relating to the British Gas Corporation is a serious matter, I agree. But let us not run away from the fact that the corporation is one of the most successful publicly owned enterprises in the world.

Mr. Litterick

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the level of investment in the publicly owned energy industries should be a model to the private manufacturing sector, and that if investment in the private manufacturing sector were comparable to the level of investment he has been describing to the House the British economy would not be in the mess that it is in today?

Dr. Mabon

Absolutely.