HC Deb 27 July 1978 vol 954 cc1771-3
1. Mr. Ashley

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he intends next to meet the TUC.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Denis Healey)

I am in constant touch with representatives of the TUC at the NEDC and on other occasions, but I have no specific date in mind for a meeting at present.

Mr. Ashley

Although I welcome and appreciate what the Chancellor has done for low-paid workers, may I ask him whether he will undertake to discuss their grievous problems with the TUC? Will he also bear in mind that £44.50 is a ludicrously low level beyond which no more than 5 per cent. can be negotiated and that this could and should be increased by at least £15 without in any way sabotaging the basic principles of the pay policy, which I support?

Mr. Healey

If my hon. Friend could guarantee that higher-paid workers would not seek to rebuild their differentials on the back of the increase in low pay, to which he has referred, there might be something to be said for his views. However, I fear that to raise the level for low pay beyond that which the TUC itself set some years ago, adjusted for pay increases in the interim, would be a dangerous course.

Mr. Bulmer

What undertakings have been sought by the Government and what undertakings have been received from the TUC about the operation of the 12-months rule?

Mr. Healey

My impression is that the statement in the White Paper concerning the maintenance of existing annual settlement dates is one which is in line with the views of the TUC.

Mr. Wrigglesworth

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there will be very great and broad welcome on the Government side of the House for the joint statement which has been published this week between the TUC and the Labour Party? In particular, will he note that some of us very much welcome the proposals for the establishment of a State bank by the amalgamation of the National Giro and the National Savings Bank, and for changes in the operation of the Bank of England? Will he clarify these propositions and say whether any more details are to be published?

Mr. Healey

I think my hon. Friend is quite right that the mass of the population will welcome very much the statement of common objectives by the TUC and the Labour Party. I have noticed that the response to this announcement in the newspapers which support the Opposition has been one of alarm and despondency.

On the question of the establishment of a single bank out of the National Savings Bank and the Giro, I hope that this will go ahead as fast as those concerned are able to negotiate the additional details. [Interruption.] I deeply regret that I missed the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsolver (Mr. Skinner) on this point, but no doubt he will seek to make it shortly in an erect position.

Sir G. Howe

Since the policies previously agreed between the TUC and the Labour Party have succeeded in the last four years only in lowering the living standards of British trade unions in contrast to those in every other part of the western world, is it not extremely foolish for the TUC once again to have agreed with the Labour Party on even stronger doses of the mixture as before, which can prove nothing but disastrous?

Mr. Healey

The right hon. and learned Gentleman must make up his mind where he stands on these matters. I quoted in the debate on Tuesday the offensive remarks that he made about the TUC's attitude and the effect of the pay policy last year. He said that he had changed his mind and that he thought that pay policy was a good thing. I do not think that he will advance his party's electoral prospects by accusing the TUC leadership of being fools, which he did again this afternoon. He must be very grateful that the right hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Prior) was not here to hear how he is betraying the position which the right hon. Gentleman is trying to establish.