HC Deb 25 July 1978 vol 954 cc1344-6
5. Mr. Kenneth Lewis

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will give the figures for recruitment to the Armed Forces in each of the first lour months for 1978 and the comparable figures for resignation or retirement.

Mr. James Wellbeloved

Figures for Armed Forces recruitment in each of the first four months of this year were 4,530, 2,622, 2,239 and 2,367 respectively. Corresponding figures for total outflow from the Services were 4,098, 3,740, 4,329 and 4,528.

These figures include officers and both Service men and Service women.

Mr. Lewis

Is the Minister aware that, while the House and the country must be appreciative of the award made to Service men recently, it falls short of the award given to the police? Is he aware—I am sure he is—that the high degree of skills required in the Services makes it necessary that we retain people? The Minister's figures show that more are leaving than are actually being recruited. It is absolutely essential to retain high skills. Therefore, we have to pay for those skills. We must pay a pilot more than we pay a London busman, but we do not.

Mr. Wellbeloved

It is not of any benefit, either to the police or to the Armed Forces, to compare the two wage awards. They are different, they are based on different calculations, they have different dates for implementation, and a whole host of other different factors applies. On the general question, the figures I have given for outflow include those leaving the forces for every conceivable reason, ranging from sickness to dismissal, from voluntary retirement to normal retirement.

Mr. Madden

Does not the Minister admit that there is widespread concern about the disgracefully low pay of industrial civil servants, many of whom perform a vital role within the Armed Forces, especially as the basic rate for many is just £32.50 per week? Can he say what is being done to resolve the present dispute and when industrial civil servants will be given a square deal?

Mr. Wellbeloved

The current dispute is being handled by the CSD, which is negotiating and dealing with the situation. With respect to the general point raised by my hon. Friend, provided that the Government continue to achieve their great success in bringing inflation under control and getting the country back on to a sound economic base, all those at present on low pay can look forward to a more prosperous future.

Mr. Goodliew

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House the percentage of officers who have passed the examination for entry and been accepted for places at the staff college but who have decided to opt out and are being replaced by reserves?

Mr. Wellbeloved

If the hon. Gentleman will table a Question on the detailed aspect that he is raising, I shall be happy to give him an answer.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Will the Minister heed the widespread resentment by parents and teachers at recruiting in certain schools by forces officers who present war in a glamorous light? Will he end this shameful practice, particularly as school leavers today are faced with the most effective recruiting agent of all—namely, unemployment?

Mr. Wellbeloved

The first responsibility of any Government is to maintain peace, and to do that we need effective Armed Forces. I can tell my hon. Friend and the House that service in the British Armed Forces is an honourable and exciting career. In no way do I wish to prevent recruiting departments of the three forces from carrying out reasonable and legitimate information exercises in our schools, provided that they are kept within reasonable bounds and are approved by the Department.