§ Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Graham.]
§ 3.15 p.m.
§ Mr. Julian Ridsdale (Harwich)I welcome this opportunity, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to discuss the new customs clearance procedure which was adopted by Her Majesty's Customs and Excise on 1st April—perhaps a significant day—and also how glad I am to have my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dover and Deal (Mr. Rees) to join me in the debate, because the new customs procedure has been causing trouble not only to Harwich but also to Dover.
At the outset of this short debate, let me say at once that my criticism is directed entirely at the system and not at the stiff of Customs and Excise. The system to which I refer is a computer system which is operated manually at the moment, and which later will be operated mechanically. But at the present time it is causing a great deal of trouble.
I do not wish to direct criticism at the staff of Customs and Excise, as I have already said, because I know that they are doing the job as well as they have always done it, but the present system has brought about some unacceptable problems. There were brought to my notice soon after the scheme began in April, and then very much more forcefully in June. Since then I have drawn these problems to the Government's attention, as has my hon. and learned Friend, because we have been very concerned about the extra costs and about many of the other difficulties which have resulted in holding up trade at the ports. It is only now that I have been able to succeed in getting this adjournment debate, although I have been trying since the middle of June.
Before the scheme was introduced, it was hoped that it would lead to a general improvement in procedure and clearance time. To date, the scheme has certainly not done this. Some growing pains were expected, but they seem to be continuing. In June I received reports that the scheme was too heavily oriented towards the satisfaction of documentary requirements and collecting the associated trade statistics and not nearly enough to the free 1107 movement of goods and the meeting of commercial wishes.
The criticisms of the scheme—which I say again are not criticisms of persons—are, first, that it is too slow to meet reasonable commercial requirements. Indeed, when I went to the port of Harwich and talked to the wharfingers and the port users, they were wholeheartedly condemning the lack of understanding of their commercial requirements, which was putting extra costs on them. They were unanimous in saying that the machinery does not function effectively. They told me that it was cumbersome in operation and lacked resilience to deal effectively with varying traffic volumes and inquiries. Entries do not appear to be taken in logical order at all times. Clearance can be obtained for today's entries before yesterday's. Prior to the introduction of the scheme, assurances were given that there would be a strict rotation.
It has been very irritating to the wharfingers. The criticisms that I am putting forward are not simply from one or two but from the general body of people who work there and are the users of the port of Harwich. Clearance times have been erratic and inconsistent, varying from two hours, which is an acceptable time, to 36 hours, which is certainly not acceptable. Obviously, a 36-hour wait for clearance causes extra cost not only to the port users but in respect of the goods themselves in coming through. As I say, it is resulting in increased costs which would be more acceptable if there were greater productivity outside free hours and at weekends.
In June, a port user told me "This is a difficult point to quantify, but the impression is of a lack of fully trained staff, insufficient staff and, therefore, insufficient supervision." The difficulty is the lack of trained staff for the new manually operated computer. It is not that there is not the staff there already. They are doing jobs which they were doing better before. It seems that the mechanical working of the computer has not been as good as it might have been.
The results for one dock are summed up by the director in charge who said that there were
varied clearance levels which at worst are inadequate to support our seven-day operations.1108 That was in June. This week, I received a report from the same director that Continental firms are threatening to take away their business from Harwich to other ports which take only four hours whereas in Harwich it has got around that the time taken is two days. This is very serious, of course. That is the impression which has been given because of the recent problems. I hope that the Financial Secretary will be able to allay the impression which has got around and to assure users that the time taken is much less than the reports which I have had.What is needed is a regular seven-days-a-week customs service. Sometimes I wonder whether the Treasury realises that the customs service at the moment requires a seven-day operation. It is essential to have people clearing goods not on a five-day week, which is usual Government procedure, but on a seven-day week all the way round. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will be able to give some assurance on this matter.
Business through Harwich is growing all the time. But the port users must keep clearing their goods all the time through a seven-day week. Continental firms say "Now that your country is in the Common Market, surely you can improve on the service and make it more comparable with what happens on the Continent." Complaints have come from Denmark. Apparently the Danish system is based on clearing goods to a manifest-type entry on arrival with a period of time allowed to enter goods fully at a later stage. Clearance is effected within minutes rather than hours. With such a system, they simply do not understand our problems when we are full members of the EEC. There is no doubt that we have to do all that we can to look at this manual system and to improve its efficiency.
I welcome the fact that last week there was a local meeting between customs officials and representatives of the wharfingers and the Port Users' Association. I hope that this means that at last there is a breakthrough to solving these problems. I seem to get assurances from the Government, and the problems seem to be solved, but then they occur again from time to time. That is why I thought that it was vital to have this debate in order to discuss these matters 1109 in public so that people might realise what was happening.
I hope that the Financial Secretary will be able to allay the serious fears which have arisen and give the port users and wharfingers some assurance that their problems will be dealt with speedily and satisfactorily. In this connection, I especially welcome the presence of my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dover and Deal, because the problems do not exist only at Harwich. I underline again that I am not criticising individual customs officials. I am criticising the system which has brought these problems to Harwich as well as to Dover, which probably are our two busiest ports. If we wish to get trade going, and to keep down costs, having introduced these computer-type systems, we must see that they operate efficiently and much more quickly than we are doing at the moment.
§ 3.25 p.m.
§ Mr. Peter Rees (Dover and Deal)I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich (Mr. Ridsdale) on selecting such an important topic for debate, and I thank him for allowing me to intervene briefly.
This scheme affects the port of Dover as acutely as the port of Harwich. There may be friendly rivalry between the two ports, but they are united in their concern about the implementation of the new scheme of customs clearance. Whatever theoretical advantages it may have, it has not been designed with the problems in mind of a port that is open for 24 hours a day. This is particularly so in the case of ports such as Dover and Harwich which are dependent on roll-on, roll-off traffic.
I do not know whose fertile mind was responsible for devising this scheme, but I do not think that sufficient thought and preparation were given to it before it was introduced. Nor do I believe that there are sufficient numbers of trained customs officers available to implement it properly. I emphasise that in my general observations I do not propose to direct criticisms at the individual service of individual officers.
As a result of the lack of forethought and preparation, a great strain has been imposed on the import agencies in Dover 1110 and on the drivers of roll-on, roll-off vehicles. I have met representatives of the import agencies in their offices and in the Eastern Docks, and I have also met the drivers in the docks and in their canteens. Those who operate the port are under strain, and although they are too loyal to say so in public, I believe that the customs officers are, too.
My hon. Friend the Member for Harwich has explained lucidly the consequences of the scheme. When documents get fed into the system it is difficult to trace them through. Vehicles get delayed by up to 36 hours. I have been under great pressure to submit a range of individual cases to the Ombudsman for his consideration. I hope that the Financial Secretary's reply to this debate today will make that unnecessary.
Beyond that I do not think that the system was designed with sufficient thought for perishable goods, particularly wine. There has been acute concern about this in East Kent. I have been in touch with the Financial Secretary on this matter for some time and I do not think it necessary for me to run over the various points again. Instead I shall just remind him that I have recently sent him eight practical suggestions for improving the scheme. I hope that he has had time to consider them and that he will give a definitive and favourable answer on these points. It is extremely important that these suggestions should be adopted and implemented before October.
The consequences of this scheme are that a great deal of capital equipment, in the form of expensive lorries, has been tied down. As a result the import costs are added to, and the ultimate cost is passed on to the consumer. We are talking about a definite and perceptible increase in the costs of importation.
I hope that the Financial Secretary will recognise that there is a very distinct problem for ports such as Dover and Harwich. I do not want to open up a gulf between our ports and the deep-water ports but our problems are different from theirs. Our problems are more akin to those of airports—of Heathrow and Gatwick—which have 24-hour import procedures.
I do not expect a complete answer today. We have provided constructive 1111 criticisms to the Financial Secretary and I hope that he will adopt most of them, if not all, and implement them in the near future. If he does not, there is a risk that the port of Dover will be clogged with vehicles and that delays will prove intolerable. This will mean a diversion of traffic to other ports which are not similarly disadvantaged.
§ 3.29 p.m.
§ The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Robert Sheldon)Both the hon. Member for Harwich (Mr. Ridsdale) and the hon. and learned Member for Dover and Deal (Mr. Rees) repeatedly mentioned that the criticism which they had to make was of the system itself and not of the customs officers. I am grateful for their comments on the ability and work of the customs officers, with whom they have had to deal as, indeed, I have had to deal.
The hon. and learned Member for Dover and Deal pointed out that there were distinct problems for the two ports of Harwich and Dover which make them a little different from some of the others. I fully agree with that. I have regarded some of the particular problems that have come on to my desk in that light. On this occasion, as on any other, I am happy to take note of the constructive criticism of the hon. and learned Member for Dover and Deal, and the eight points contained in his letter of 18th July. I have examined that letter and I have some preliminary thoughts on it, although I cannot give my final conclusions at this stage. I welcome his understanding of the need for a closer investigation than is possible between the time when he wrote the letter and this debate. I accept what he said in the letter, that it is in everyone's interests that the new procedure should work as smoothly as possibly. All of us in this House are at one on this matter, as we are on most of the matters with which we are dealing in this debate.
The Customs and Excise introduced the new procedure on 1st April this year. That new procedure brought in computer processing. Eventually this will cover all major ports. It was developed over quite a lengthy period—about three years£and a number of initial tests took place in a number of ports throughout the country.
1112 As the hon. Member for Harwich mentioned, there was wide consultation before the introduction of the system. Indeed these consultations are still going on. The reason for the introduction of the new system was that Customs and Excise should be able to identify those importations which offer the greatest revenue risk or the risk of evasion of other controls. In this way customers can concentrate its checks accordingly in order to give an easier passage to those importations which do not have the same level of risk. These import procedures are carried out at each port and are known as the "entry processing unit", the entry being the customs declaration form.
In coming to accept this system, Customs and Excise has had to change the procedures, and it was this change which obviously created particular problems. Eventually we expect, and in many cases we now obtain, a much better overall service to the trade. There is, of course, the advantage to the Department of the reduction in the cost of operation of an increasingly growing traffic. Standardisation is an important feature of the system. We hope that it will lead to a position where no distortion of trade will arise as a result of differences in the various procedures of Customs and Excise throughout the country.
But the aim must be to devise a standardised system which will produce a satisfactory service at the busiest roll-on, roll-off ports such as Dover and Harwich. Customs and Excise has been in close touch with the port authorities and has had a great deal of assistance both centrally and locally. I also welcome the views that have been put from so many of these quarters.
There are a number of particular difficulties in Harwich and Dover in relation to this roll-on, roll-off traffic—for example, the groupage containers and the question of perishables. The clearance time for such traffic has been longer than I would wish to see and, indeed, Customs and Excise and the trade would wish to see. I know the effect that this can have on costs. As a result, Customs and Excise places a high priority on trying to achieve a rapid clearance of these goods. As both hon. Gentlemen know, a number of meetings have been held on this matter. We are looking urgently at certain areas of particular difficulty.
1113 I mentioned perishables, because obviously a rapid treatment is essential. Customs and Excise has procedures whereby urgent entries can be flagged by the agents so that they receive priority. This is usually quite effective, although its success obviously depends on its not being overused. The number of instances of priority must be a relatively small proportion of the whole, otherwise priority does not have much meaning.
We have introduced at Dover a system of colour tagging for perishable goods and this is leading to improved clearance times. Changes within the entry processing unite at Harwich have led to generally acceptable clearance times. The customs would like to see some goods cleared in less than three hours—preferably in less than two hours. We hope to meet these targets, even though the number of controls to which some perishables are subject can make entry processing rather complex.
The other main area where delays have occurred has been in groupage containers. These carry a number of consignments destined for different importers. The responsible agent may choose whether the examination is to be carried out at the port of importation or at an inland clearance port. A random sample of entries is chosen for physical examination and the results of the examination will be analysed so that, in due course, the customs will be able to decide where controls can be eased. Where a large number of consignments are carried in one container and each consignment is the subject of an entry, the proportion of containers selected for examination will be greater than average.
The random selection, however, represents only a part of the entries selected for examination, and discretion is used in exercising the further checks in order to minimise the number of groupage containers selected for examination. We are looking at other ways of varying the clearance methods of containers.
Pre-entry is one of the easiest ways of speeding up clearance. Agents are allowed to present entries up to four days before the arrival of the goods. That is the definition of pre-entry. As much of the processing of the documents as possible can be done in advance before the 1114 goods arrive. The customs recognise that in some ports there was a loss of confidence in this facility just after the new procedures were introduced when it seemed that pre-entry had little effect on clearance times. A number of people felt that they were doing this work for little, if any, benefit. Agents were concerned that it increased the risk of documents going astray. They felt that they got no benefit from the system.
The customs are anxious to encourage the use of pre-entry which makes it possible to get more work done during the daylight hours rather than at night when the goods may come in. It is easy for the customs to organise and it can result in a rapid availability of the necessary clearance. The need to provide an efficient service round the clock at Dover, Harwich and other ports is fully recognised, but it makes sense to do at night only those jobs that have to be done then. It is more suitable for us to use our staff during the day and of course they prefer to work during the day.
One modification that we have in mind in order to achieve this result is to encourage agents to pre-enter and for us to return the pre-entries after the initial processing so that the agents can attach the related documents when they arrive and re-present a complete package. The customs are also looking at ways of giving priority to the final processing of pre-entered consignments. I am pleased to say that the proportion of pre-entries at Dover has now returned to much nearer the level that existed before 1st April.
One of the problems that caused some annoyance and grievance was the occasional tendency for some documents to go astray in the entry processing unit. This happened largely because staff were unfamiliar with the system. As experience has been gained, the problem has diminished and the customs have taken steps to ensure that missing documents are quickly found by allocating staff specifically to this duty. As the hon. Member for Harwich mentioned, there were certain teething troubles, but I hope that this problem will disappear fairly rapidly.
Lost or misplaced documents lead to lengthy clearance times. This can be particularly frustrating for agents who, quite rightly, want to know what has happened to their entries. The time taken to clear 1115 an entry after the arrival of goods can be reduced if agencies pre-enter, or if the goods are of the type requiring priority treatment. Nevertheless, the clearance time for a particular consignment will depend on a number of factors—such as the kind of control, the correctness of the entry—which is most important because a number of the entries are filled in incorrectly and this causes great problems—and the need for physical examination.
The rapid clearance of any one item provides no certainty of rapid clearance of a similar item. The introduction of a computer will provide greater certainty about clearance times, as it will be easier to discover how a particular entry is being processed. Meanwhile, the customs authorities are considering whether changes to the entry processing unit organisation could be made to lead to more predictable clearance times. The customs authorities have adjusted their procedures in a number of ways, and there will be further modifications in the light of circumstances and experience.
There are a number of causes of delay over which the customs authorities have no control. As an example, if entries are not presented soon after a ship has berthed some apparent delay in clearance is inevitable, no matter how quickly the entry is dealt with. When goods have to be examined, considerable time can sometimes pass before they are presented to the customs officer. At Dover in particular delay can arise because of general congestion in the port. Such congestion is caused not only by the constraints within the port but by delays in removing vehicles after customs clearance.
The customs authorities are confident that they are able to achieve a satisfactory performance within a reasonable time scale. The new procedures which are somewhat slow, as I admit, are settling down and the customs authorities are closely monitoring what is happening in all ports. The procedures introduced on 1116 1st April make way for the phasing-in of a computer system in the major ports. Dover, for example, will be linked to this computer in October this year and Harwich in November.
The introduction of advanced data processing is generally welcomed by the trade and port authorities and will further reduce clearance times. Improvements to the system are being prepared for the future, and it is eventually intended that traders should be able to key in entry data directly to the computer and to interrogate the computer to know what has happened to the entry, as now happens in the system which has been operating successfully at Heathrow. Full trader input —the ability of each trader to make his own input to the computer—will not be available for some time, but we are currently examining ways of offering limited access by the trader to the computer soon after this programme has been completed at major ports in April 1979.
I appreciate the concern which has been voiced about the new procedures. I welcome the eight points put to me by the hon. and learned Member for Dover and Deal. I could give him a brief answer now, but I think it would be better for me to write to him in detail after further examination.
I understand the interest and involvement of both hon Gentlemen in this subject. I assure them that the customs authorities are urgently examining the specific difficulties in some ports and are co-operating with the port users and trade organisations in seeking to overcome them. Both hon. Gentlemen have carried out a service to the House in bringing to public attention some of the aspects of this problem. I try to make myself as fully acquainted as I can with this problem, and I hope that we shall be able to improve on the procedures.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Adjourned accordingly at sixteen minutes to Four o'clock.