Voucher Scheme (Hansard, 18 July 1978)

§ 3. Mr. Skinner
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local authorities have given her notice that they intend to implement the voucher scheme.

§ 10. Mr. Rooker
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local education authorities have informed her Department that they intend to adopt a voucher scheme.

§ 18. Mr. John Evans
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what recent representations she has received about the introduction of education voucher schemes.

§ Mrs. Shirley Williams
In the past two months I have received seven letters about education vouchers: three from members of the public, and one each from my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), the hon. Member for Ashford (Mr. Speed), the Kent county Labour Party and the East Kent branch of the Socialist Educational Association. I have had no official notification that any local education authority intends to adopt a voucher scheme, but I understand that Kent is planning to do so experimentally following the feasibility study that it has conducted, which was published last month.

§ Mr. Skinner
Does my right hon. Friend expect that, if the Kent scheme goes ahead, the district auditor will be looking closely at the handing over to parents of large sums of ratepayers' money, supported as it is by taxpayers' money from the rate support grant? Does she expect the councillors there perhaps to be disqualified, as happened in the case of the Clay Cross councillors who took certain local decisions and were dealt with in that fashion? Does she also expect, if, for instance, £500 were handed over to parents, that the payment would be subject to tax as part of the parents' total income, taking into account that some of those parents might well have sent their children to public schools anyway?

§ Mrs. Williams
I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. 244 Skinner) has put down a Question to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the tax matter.

§ Mr. Skinner
Yes, I have.

§ Mrs. Williams
I would not wish to anticipate my right hon. Friend's reply. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary has indicated the costs of these schemes. On a bare assessment, within the maintained area alone the cost would be between £90,000 and £600,000 a year for one division of Kent—the Ashford division. If, however, the scheme was extended to take in independent schools as well, as many voucher advocates wish, the sums involved would be very much greater and could be nationally as much as £400 million to £500 million. I cannot believe that this is a proper use of public money, particularly in the case of a county which has one of the lower pupil-teacher ratios and one of the lowest levels of provision of nursery and under-fives education.

§ Mr. Rooker
Does my right hon. Friend accept that it is a very strange concept of freedom of choice and equality of opportunity when the choice of certain schools and expenditure on the voucher scheme will depend for many children on the depth of their parents' pockets—and they are the sort of people who hide behind corporate greed which is represented by the Tory Party? Does she agree that it is a misuse of the concepts of freedom of choice and equality of opportunity, to which we all subscribe? Does she further agree that it is a travesty of the English language to describe the voucher schemes in such terms?

§ Mrs. Williams
I understand the strength of my hon. Friend's feeling. If we care most about the standards of education for all our children—and I hope we do—we should spend the money on additional teachers, on more books and teaching materials and on better buildings, not on ludicrous administrative expenditure for voucher schemes.

§ Mr. Evans
Does my right hon. Friend accept that education will play a significant role in the next General Election? Will she therefore make it clear to the country that voucher schemes are just another example of the selfish and socially divisive policies of the Tory Party? Will she confirm that this scheme on a national basis would mean a massive increase in 245 public expenditure advocated by the Tory Party, which is constantly preaching the doctrine of cutting public expenditure?

§ Mrs. Williams
As I have indicated, the scheme would mean considerable increases in public expenditure which would not be directly related to the quality of the education system. That would be even more true if the extension of voucher schemes included many thousands of parents who now pay to send their children to independent schools. In fairness to the Conservative Party I must say that we have no idea yet whether it is for, against, or divided on the question of voucher schemes.

§ Mr. Mayhew
As the Minister has agreed this afternoon that more parents are deeply interested in their children's education than ever before, will she now give credit where it is due and agree that it is desirable that parents should have the right to choose where their children should go to school? Will she congratulate the Kent county council on doing her work for her in introducing a pilot scheme to see how the arrangement would work?

§ Mrs. Williams
It is very doubtful whether the Kent scheme would be an efficient or effective way of increasing parental choice. Both the feasibility study and the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas) have indicated publicly that this is a doubtful way of extending or improving parental choice.

§ Mr. Bryan Davies
Is not one of the singular attractions of the voucher scheme precisely that it may be available to subsidise children at private schools? Is not this another illustration of the Conservatve Party favouring privileged education as long as it is open only to the wealthy and is subsidised by the taxpayer and ratepayer?

§ Mrs. Williams
I am concerned not only with voucher schemes, on which the Conservative Party may well be divided, but with the prospect of assisted places and aided schemes on which it is at one. It seems to me that we shall see the diversion of public money in education towards the education of a small minority and away from the education of the vast bulk of our children.

§ Mr. Costain
Does the right hon. Lady appreciate that Labour Members who criticise this scheme cannot have read it in detail? Why does she not encourage some new ideas in education?

§ Mrs. Williams
I have said before that the study on the voucher scheme is sensible and carefully thought out, but I believe that if the hon. Gentleman had read it, as I have done, he would not be able to conclude from it that the report came out wholly or even largely in favour of such a system, if, indeed, it is feasible.

§ Dr. Boyson
Is the Secretary of State aware that many of us on the Conservative side commend the radical thinking of the Kent county council and the careful thought of the feasibility study, which was conducted before the decision was made to go ahead with the voucher scheme, which increases parental choice and apparently causes hysteria to half of the Labour Party? Is she also aware that the careful way in which Kent county council is introducing the scheme contrasts with the way in which the Labour Party brought in compulsory comprehensive reorganisation, which was done without any survey or assessment and, according to her speech of 12th July, it is not still clear whether that reorganisation is successful?

§ Mrs. Williams
The hon. Gentleman argued in favour of a voucher scheme in his pamphlet entitled "Parental Choice" which was published in January 1975. But the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas) said on "Panorama" that an experiment is going to be quite expensive and if it was introduced generally it would cost a lot of money, and that creates great difficulties because of our policy of keeping public expenditure within bounds. I believe that the hon. Gentleman was very honest in what he said. There is no doubt but that if one introduced a voucher scheme it would make substantial additional demands upon public money. The party of which the hon. Member for Brent, North (Dr. Boyson) is a distinguished member has committed itself to making substantial cuts in public expenditure. It is, therefore, impossible to square this particular circle.
With regard to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's remarks, it is perhaps worth pointing out that his distinguished 247 colleague the right hon. Lady the Leader of the Opposition increased the proportion of children in comprehensive schools from just under one-third to well over one-half when she was Secretary of State for Education and Science.