§ 9. Mr. Formanasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what advice her Department is giving to local education authorities on the problem of falling school rolls.
§ Miss Margaret JacksonMy Department's advice is contained in circular 5/77, "Falling Numbers and School Closures", which was issued in June last year.
§ Mr. FormanIs the Minister aware that one of the most serious aspects of this problem is the calculation or the estimate that primary school rolls may fall by as much as one-third over the period 1973 to 1986? In view of that, is her Department considering one or two imaginative proposals such as the idea of interchange of teachers between schools?
§ Miss JacksonYes, we are looking at all the aspects of falling rolls and all the solutions which might be adopted to cope with the ensuing difficulties.
§ Mr. MaddenWhat advantage has been taken of lower school rolls to improve the teacher-pupil ratio? What advantage have local education authorities taken of the improved rate support grant settlement to appoint more teachers?
§ Miss JacksonWe do not have the final figures on the advantage that 253 authorities have taken of the extra money that we have given them to employ more teachers, but it is our understanding that so far it appears that this money is being used for that purpose—which clearly we are pleased about.
On the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, about the obvious possibilities for improvement, it is certainly our hope that as time goes on falling numbers in schools will offer opportunities to improve class sizes as well as, perhaps, to take out of use old buildings, and opportunities to implement a variety of other desirable aims.
§ Mr. William SheltonIs the Minister aware that despite falling rolls in London, as a result, I suppose, of comprehensivisation, the selection procedures by ability adopted by the Inner London Education Authority mean that in some cases a pupil, for instance, in band 1 cannot go to a neighbouring school which does not have vacancies in band 1 but has vacancies in band 2 or band 3 and is directed to travel for perhaps half an hour or an hour by bus in order to attend a school which has vacancies in band 1? Is the hon. Lady aware of the great deal of parental misery that this is causing?
§ Miss JacksonAs those who are living in selective counties could tell the hon. Member, any process of selection usually involves inconvenience and travelling. However, it is my understanding that the system that the ILEA adopts achieves about 90 per cent. parental satisfaction in school choice—a higher percentage than anywhere else in the country.
§ Mr. Andrew F. BennettWill my right hon. Friend make sure, before she agrees to any school closures as a result of falling rolls, that local authorities which propose closures have expanded their provision of nursery education?
§ Miss JacksonIt is not within my power to ensure that, but certainly questions of that kind are taken into account when we consider proposals for school closures.
§ Dr. BoysonWill the Minister consider three ways in which falling school rolls could help in education? First, where schools have to close, those that close should be the schools in which parents have no confidence and not 254 simply those with the oldest buildings. Secondly, now that we have to recruit fewer teachers, we could raise the academic standards among those we are recruiting. Thirdly, more space could be given in certain schools which have been overcrowded for years in the middle of our cities.
§ Miss JacksonMy understanding is that space is already becoming available in schools in our cities which have been overcrowded for years. With regard to the question of academic standards of the teaching profession, we have already taken a number of steps on this matter, which—sadly—were not taken by the previous Conservative Government.