HC Deb 12 July 1978 vol 953 cc1489-91
9. Mr. Dykes

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has to meet the leader of the majority group on the Greater London Council to discuss housing policy.

Mr. Freeson

None, Sir.

Mr. Dykes

Could the Minister try a little harder? As the policy of homesteading and council house sales promoted by the GLC under Conservative control is now so manifestly and overwhelmingly popular among the members of the public, should not the Minister be more positive and have a meeting with the GLC and give full encouragement to these two key twin elements of the new GLC housing policy?

Mr. Freeson

From time to time, Ministers, including myself, meet the leader, as we meet leaders and chairmen of other local authorities, on housing and other matters. I have no present plans to do so, and I have no reason to do so on the grounds that have been put to me. I would make only this comment: there has been a lot of huffing and puffing and windy talk about homesteading and other great successes. So far, I understand that about 100 houses have been sold under the homesteading scheme in London.

Mr. Douglas-Mann

Will my right hon. Friend consider whether it would be desirable for him to meet the leader of the GLC, because he would then have the opportunity of pointing out to him the effects of the policy to which the hon. Member for Harrow, East (Mr. Dykes) referred? In the words of an official of the GLC, in response to a request for a transfer for a family in very acute housing need, the GLC replied: I very much regret that the position as far as houses"—

Hon. Members

Reading.

Mr. Douglas-Mann

I am quoting.

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is not in order to quote at Question Time.

Mr. Douglas-Mann

An official of the GLC pointed out that the position in terms of houses has become very much more difficult as a direct consequence of the GLC's homesteading scheme and the fact that 50 per cent. of the houses that became vacant had to be sold, so that transfers became infinitely more difficult.

Mr. Freeson

I do not think that the point with which my hon. Friend is justifiably concerned arises from the homesteading scheme, for the reason of the figure that I quoted. Certainly there is growing concern about the number of properties that are standing empty in London and in some other local authority areas where indiscriminate policies are being pursued. It is estimated that there are now several hundred such properties in London and in other authorities as a result of indiscriminate policies.

Perhaps I should make the further point that although I have no plans to meet the leader of the GLC at present, my right hon. Friend has plans in hand to meet the chairman of the housing committee of the GLC to discuss policy matters.

Mr. Heseltine

Will the Minister bear in mind that the figures that he gave to the House a few minutes ago in respect of homesteading are misleading, to the extent that 500 applications are now being processed, and this is a very different impression from the 100 completions to which he referred? When the Secretary of State meets the chairman of the housing committee, will he congratulate him on being able to achieve the sale of 1,000 council houses since the Conservatives took control of the GLC, and will he also congratulate him on reducing the figure of 1,800 squatters who were involved in GLC properties when the Conservatives took power to a figure, now, of only 450?

Mr. Freeson

I cannot comment much on the last figure because I do not know the details, except to say that I believe that a good many of the so-called squatters—as, indeed, is the case with a number of other local authorities in London—were in fact licensees, using the terms "squatter" rather incorrectly.

On the first matter, about the rate of sales, I should like to make two brief points. First, there is no cause for congratulation when indiscriminate policies are being pursued which do not take account of the kind of situation rightly raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden (Mr. Douglas-Mann). Secondly, for all the talk about the "sale of the century" and—what is it?—a target of 10,000 by March 1979, which is only a few months away, I see no reason why even the GLC Tory leadership or the Opposition Front Bench should congratulate themselves on the results of their huffing and puffing during the last year or so.