SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EMPLOYMENT (Hansard, 11 July 1978)

§ Q3. Mr. Wyn Roberts
asked the Prime Minister if he will dismiss the Secretary of State for Employment.

§ The Prime Minister
No.

§ Mr. Wyn Roberts
It is a bit late in the day to make changes. Will the Prime Minister explain why every Conservative Government since the war have left office with more people employed than when they came in and why every Labour Government since the war, without exception, have left office with fewer people in employment than when they came in?

§ The Prime Minister
It is pretty generally understood that the level of unemployment is related to the world recession. That is why the Government have endeavoured to use measures that would help industry, through such devices as the temporary employment subsidy—against the wishes of the Opposition. It is also the case that there are more people in employment today, as distinct from more people unemployed, than there were in 1248 1973. As to how we leave office, that will not be for a long time yet, so I do not think that the hon. Gentleman needs to worry. His memory is singularly short if he does not remember that when the last Conservative Government left office there was a three-day working week in operation.

§ Mr. Gwilym Roberts
Does my right hon. Friend accept that it is a reasonable statistical estimate that if all the proposals which the Opposition have supported in the House had been carried out there would be a million more people unemployed at present? Would he care to comment on that?

§ The Prime Minister
I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that if the policies advocated by the Opposition were put into effect there would be a substantial increase in unemployment. I do not think that they deny that.

§ Mr. Churchill
Rubbish.

§ The Prime Minister
It must be clear that the removal of grants and subsidies, which is the Opposition's policy, would lead to the collapse of a number of firms in the depths of the recession. Therefore, we believe that we should continue with these policies until the world economy picks up again.

§ Mr. Tim Renton
When the Prime Minister was in Bremen last week, did he notice the figures which showed that Germany's unemployment was at a four-year low in June? Does not that emphasise the tragic contrast between four years of private enterprise recovery from the oil crisis in Germany and four years of Socialist slump in Britain? Is it not because of that contrast that the German wolfhound bit the Prime Minister so hard last week?

§ The Prime Minister
On the contrary. It was not like a sheepdog but it was nearly as nice. Germany, like other countries, has suffered from an increase in unemployment to a considerable extent. There are now a number of countries, I regret to say, whose unemployment levels are higher than that of the United Kingdom.

§ Mr. Lawrence
Name them.

§ The Prime Minister
If the hon. Gentleman will table a Question, I will 1249 give him an answer. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] It is no use hon. Gentlemen shouting "Oh". Everyone knows that this is true. There are, I am glad to say, other countries which we must try to emulate. What is certainly true is that this Government, through their measures to contain unemployment, have done much better than a number of other countries. I shudder to think what would happen if the Opposition came back to power and reversed those policies.

§ Mr. Radice
While I agree that the unemployment figures are far too high, particularly in the northern region, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he agrees that today's inflation figures are extremely encouraging, not only in terms of what happens to inflation this year and next year but in terms of what happens to unemployment this year and next year?

§ The Prime Minister
It is true that the wholesale price figures published yesterday show that there is likely to be a considerable steadiness in the inflation rate between now and the end of the year, which is as far ahead as I have always wanted to prophesy because so much depends on the next wage round. [Interruption.] Hon. Members opposite need not affect any surprise about this. So much depends on what happens in the next wage round and upon matters such as the strength of sterling, which is pretty stable at the moment, and similar issues. The lower the rate of inflation—this is what I have said 150 times and will say another 150 times—the more prospects we have of more competitive jobs and, therefore, of more employment.