FINANCE BILL (Hansard, 11 July 1978)

§ Mr. Speaker
I call Mr. Jerry Wiggin, on a point of order.

§ Dr. Alan Glyn (Windsor and Maidenhead)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
I shall call the hon. Gentleman afterwards. This is a point of order as well.

§ Mr. Jerry Wiggin (Weston-super-Mare)
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I raise with you a point of order, of which I have given you some intimation, concerning the selection of amendments for this Finance Bill both on Report and, indeed, in Committee upstairs? I appreciate that you are not personally responsible for that. I think that today's selection of amendments contains 33 Government amendments or amendments with Government amendments contained in the group, seven amendments containing the names of my right hon. Friends on the Conservative Front Bench and only 14 others from various Back Benchers on both sides of the House, of which a number are as a result of ties in Divisions upstairs, promises from Ministers or other special priorities, of which you are bound to take notice.
It would not be in order for me to raise with you the whys and wherefores of your selection, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, I understand that. But I hope that I may expand my argument slightly over and above that, because of the massive tax legislation which this country has had put upon it in the last 13 or more years. Indeed, it was pointed out to me that in the 13 years up to and including 1964, there were just under 900 pages of Finance Acts, averaging 69 a year. In the 13 years from—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Will the hon. Gentleman put his point of order to me? It is no good giving us history. I want a point of order with which I can deal.

§ Mr. Wiggin
All right, Mr. Speaker. I accept that you, and indeed the House, 1257 fully understand the complexity of our tax legislation. But it is as a result of this complexity that Back Benchers find it impossible to get small points of tax law selected for debate during various stages of the Finance Bill. This is the point that I wish to put to you.
We all know that it is necessary for the usual channels to give advice to the Committee Chairmen and, respectfully, to you, as to those subjects which are of major interest to the Opposition. Of course, all Government amendments are selected automatically by you. The result of this advice is that small points of taxation, which may be immensely important to some people, are never open to debate in this House. Year after year it is quite impossible for amendments to this massive quantity of legislation—I shall not seek to make that point—to be debated.
I ask whether you would consider that this point should be referred to the Select Committee on Procedure. Although you may say to me that this point arises on any Bill—indeed, you have to use your discretion—because of the fact that the Finance Bill is an annual Bill, and because these wrongs are carried over from year to year, this is a special case. I would go further and suggest that there should be a special Select Committee on this matter, although I could not ask you to decide on that. The point is that minorities are not being heard and there is no available channel for these points to be put. Therefore, I put it to you, as a defender of minorities, that this is a point which you should consider.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman gave me notice this morning that he would seek to raise this point. That is why I listened as carefully as I could to what he had to say. I am glad to note that he began by saying that he in no way challenged the selection that I made, because that would be out of order.
The selection of amendments is always a very difficult task for me. It would be much easier for me if I said that everything could be called—

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
Hear, hear.

§ Mr. Speaker
But the House has given me the responsibility, apparently with the 1258 support of the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), of selecting the amendments. Although I know that I cannot please everyone, I do my best. The complaint which the hon. Gentleman has raised is one that has been raised ever since I have been in this House, and every one of my predecessors gave much the same reply as I am giving today. If the hon. Gentleman remains here as long as I have been here, he will hear that point raised many times in the future.

§ Dr. Glyn
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. While completely accepting your judgment, I should like to reinforce what my hon. Friend has said. For instance, new clause no. 1 affects a large number of people, and to my knowledge it has been on the Amendment Paper on almost every Finance Bill, although it has never been called. In fact this amendment affects all those people who travel to work and who spend over £100 a year in travel expense. Yet under the present arrangements Back Benchers seem to have no chance of debating these points on the Floor of the House.

§ Mr. Speaker
I listened with care to the hon. Member for Windsor and Eton.

§ Dr. Glyn
Maidenhead.

§ Mr. Speaker
Maidenhead. They are both respectable names. I am sorry that I cannot change the selection that I have made.