HC Deb 10 July 1978 vol 953 cc1009-13

10. Mr. Aitken asked the Secretary of State for. Industry when he expects to meet the chairman of the National Enterprise Board.

11. Mr. Richard Page asked the Secretary of State for Industry when he expects next to have a meeting with the chairman of the National Enterprise Board.

Mr. Kaufman

My right hon. Friend meets the chairman very frequently.

Mr. Aitken

Since the National Enterprise Board is now investing £1,000 million of taxpayers' money, does not the Minister think that he should obtain from the chairman a rather more coherent and precise definition of the NEB's strategy at the present time? In particular, is he aware that there is considerable

sites for the service of which substantial public funds may have been expended? Is it not clear that that has not happened in the important Hellaby site, by the M18 in my constituency.

Mr. Cryer

My hon. Friend has raised a detailed point. If he wants to expand on it, I hope that he will write to me. Certainly, from the point of view of the provision of industrial sites, the Department of Industry, through the English Industrial Estates Corporation, makes every possible endeavour to provide not only large and medium advance factories but small advance factories to encourage small firms to act as inducements to private enterprise to go to these areas and to provide jobs.

Following is the information:

public confusion whether the NEB is supposed to be a hospital for lame ducks, a high rolling punter in the shares of small companies or a speculative secondary bank? May we have a much more precise definition?

Mr. Kaufman

The confusion is in the minds of the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. and hon. Friends. There is absolutely no confusion in the minds of the many workers who have benefited from the NEB's investments, including those of my constituents who work for the NEB's subsidiary, Fairey Engineering.

Mr. Robinson

When my right hon. Friend next meets the chairman, will he draw to his attention our concern that, if the big investment in microcircuits and silicon chips is to go ahead, which may have many desirable features, there should be an adequate balance of risk between the national capital provided and that of certain individuals who stand to gain enormously from it?

Mr. Kaufman

I take account of the point made by my hon. Friend. I am glad to hear that he believes that this investment is inherently desirable, unlike the utterly extraordinary statement by the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) in his letter of 19th June to my right hon. Friend, in which he said: Many informed people do not consider it prudent to attempt, at this stage, to catch up the Japanese and Americans in the volume production of general purpose computer chips without multinational backing. What total defeatism by the former party of patriotism!

Mr. Page

As the NEB made only £34 million last year, what steps will the Minister take to ensure that it does not slide down the same path as that already followed by the Italian equivalent of the NEB, which owes £11 billion and needs another £3 billion to £4 billion to keep it going?

Mr. Kaufman

The hon. Gentleman voted for the NEB to slide down a path when he voted to deny it money, but I am glad that the House defeated him and his right hon. and hon. Friends and gave the NEB the necessary funds.

Mr. Conlan

When my right hon. Friend meets the chairman of the NEB, will he inform him that it was a matter of some regret that in the Northern region, where there is a very high level of unemployment, the NEB contributed to that high level by a recent closure? Will he also inform the chairman that in future we shall be looking to higher and more profitable investment by the NEB?

Mr. Kaufman

I am aware of the great regret felt by a number of my hon. Friends and of the strong representations that they made on the matter to which my hon. Friend has drawn attention. The NEB took that decision. It was not one that we were able to dispute or to intervene in. I certainly take full account of what my hon. Friend has said. That was one of the reasons why we opened a regional office of the NEB in Newcastle, and why the special NEB for the north-east was set up. I hope that initiatives will be taken to increase employment in my hon. Friend's area.

Sir K. Joseph

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the fact that, as admittedly appears from a leak, the partners in the proposed NEB scheme are to be paid in part abroad is a clear indication that people of enterprise cannot be expected to take risks in the tax climate provided by the present Government?

Mr. Kaufman

The fact is that the people of enterprise went away under the Conservative Government's tax climate and that they are coming back under ours.

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Joan Evans.

Sir K. Joseph

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I shall call the right hon. Gentleman next. Mr. Joan Evans.

Mr. Ioan Evans

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in view of the failure of the private sector to invest in manufacturing industry, the NEB will need to play an increasing role in future? Although this is an academic question, because of the concern expressed by workers whose jobs have been saved by the NEB, may I ask whether we have had any view from the Opposition on what they would do with the NEB in future?

Mr. Kaufman

I fully accept my hon. Friend's view that the NEB should have an increasing role. It is in fact praise-worthily expanding its role all the time. Of course, there is great fear that, if the Opposition were to come to office, they would abolish the NEB. When I met the shop stewards of Fairey Engineering, their great fear was that their security of employment—many of them live in Manchester, including Moss Side—would be undermined by the activities of the Tory Opposition.

Sir K. Joseph

Will the right hon. Gentleman now confirm or deny that the partners from abroad in the microprocessors scheme are proposing to be paid, in part at least, overseas in order to escape United Kingdom taxation?

Mr. Kaufman

What I say to the right hon. Gentleman is that any matters—[HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."] I am endeavouring to do so to the best of my ability, limited though it is. The right hon. Gentleman knows that any matters on taxation are for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor at the Exchequer. But I have also said, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State stated in reply to that weird letter from the right hon. Gentleman, that any information about these matters which is not commercially confidential and which can properly be made available will be made available by the National Enterprise Board.