HC Deb 10 July 1978 vol 953 cc1014-6
14. Mrs. Wise

asked the Secretary' of State for Industry what steps he proposes to take towards the implementation of a planning agreement with Lucas Aerospace on the basis of the corporate plan for saving jobs by useful production; and whether he will discuss these proposals with the shop stewards combine committee and appropriate trade union officials

Mr. Kaufman

The Government would welcome a planning agreement with Lucas Aerospace and my right hon. Friend has recently reminded the Lucas group of the advantages. The combine shop stewards committee corporate plan is appropriately the subject of discussion between the unions and company management.

Mrs. Wise

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, South (Mr. Pavitt), which implied that the Lucas workers were not even aware that they were making kidney machines, was unworthy and slanderous? May I recommend my right hon. Friend to give more attention to the detail of this plan, from which he would learn that the Lucas Aerospace workers want expansion of kidney machine production and the production of portable machines? May I suggest that a serious effort be made by his Department to understand the valuable work which has been done by these workers if it is to have any chance of formulating a successful planning agreement with the company?

Mr. Kaufman

If my hon. Friend had spent as much time as I in discussions with the Confederation of Shipbuilding and Engineering Unions and the Lucas workers on the corporate plan, as distinct from making public sloganeering statements, she would know that I have involved myself for two and a half years in this issue. She would also know that it was the initiative that I undertook in discussions with Ken Gill that helped to lead, for the first time, to representation by the combine committee in discussions with Lucas management. That breakthrough took place following my discussion with Mr. Ken Gill.

My hon. Friend the Member for Brent, South (Mr. Pavitt) said that workers in Lucas industries who were employed in his area make these kidney machines. The workers in the corporate plan asked for the workers at Lucas Aerospace to make the kidney machines.

Mr. Adley

I thank the Minister for giving us another glimpse of the authentic voice of the kitchen Cabinet. I do not wish to intervene in the fratricidal argument between the Government Front and Back Benches, but does the Minister recall telling us one, two and three years ago how planning agreements were absolutely central to the Government's economic strategy? However, he told us a few minutes ago that one planning agreement only has been reached in the private sector in the four years of office of this Government. If we are to believe the Government in saying that there has been a staggering economic recovery in the last three years and particularly in the last few months, is that in spite of or because of the lack of planning agreements?

Mr. Kaufman

The hon. Member has drawn attention to the importance of planning agreements. Much advice has been given to the Minister of State on matters which he should raise with the CBI when he sees its members tonight. I shall be in his company and I shall advise him to tell the CBI that its hostility to planning agreements is shortsighted and blinkered, and that planning agreements can help individual companies as well as the Government's industrial strategy.

Mr. Rooker

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, South-West (Mrs. Wise) is about worthy of his Department at present? [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Will he note that the change that took place last week followed the accession of Mr. Roy Grantham to the position of leading for the confederation? Why did no Minister from his Department take part in the programme for the Open Uuniversity on the Lucas corporate plan?

Mr. Kaufman

I realise that taking part in Open University television programmes is a high priority in the Socialist industrial strategy. I also notice that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Rooker) not only votes with the Opposition but wins their cheers. If my hon. Friend, instead of writing letters to newspapers and making speeches, had taken positive action, we might have achieved earlier the type of meeting with the lay representatives of the combine that eventually came about as a result of the patient work of Ministers in the Department of Industry.