Working Hours (Reductions) (Hansard, 31 January 1978)

§ 5. Mr. Higgins
asked the Secretary of State for Employment to what extent reductions in working hours are taken into account by the Government in deciding whether a particular pay settlement is within the Government's pay guidelines.

§ The Minister of State, Department of Employment (Mr. Harold Walker)
Reductions in working hours, unless accompanied by corresponding reductions in pay, should be taken into account 226 in determining whether a settlement is within the pay guidelines.

§ Mr. Higgins
The Minister may feel that they should be taken into account, but to what extent do the Government do that in deciding whether a settlement is consistent with the guidelines? Will he place in the Library a list of major settlements where there has been a significant reduction in working hours during the period of pay policy?

§ Mr. Walker
As I have said, we take them into account in monitoring settlements. I am not sure about the hon. Gentleman's second point. We would have to reflect carefully about that, and that I shall do.

§ Mr. Walter Johnson
Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a suspicion in the public sector that so-called productivity deals in the private sector, which include a reduction of hours and a redesignation or reclassification of posts, are causing serious difficulties for those who work in the public sector?

§ Mr. Walker
Yes, I understand that anxiety. I am glad to have this opportunity to reassure my hon. Friend that we seek to apply the guidelines just as strictly in the private sector and in the implementation of self-financing productivity deals as elsewhere. My hon. Friend will have noted from the publicity given to one or two cases recently how firmly the Government are seeking to sustain the application of the guidelines there.

§ Mr. Michael Latham
How much longer will the Minister and his Department go on covering up the sanctions black list?

§ Mr. Walker
I think I know to what the hon. Member is referring. The so-called black list is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who has spoken in the House about it.

§ Mr. Madel
On the question of monitoring pay settlements, is all the monitoring clone by officials in the Department or is some of the work farmed out to market research organisations? If so, how many of the organisations are involved, and what is the cost to public funds?

§ Mr. Walker
No, there is no farming out to organisations outside the Government. The monitoring is done for the private sector in the main by the Department of Employment and the Treasury. With the public sector it is done mainly by the appropriate sponsoring Departments.

§ Mr. Adley
Will the Minister say something about the agreement reached for the electrical contracting industry by the joint industry board on behalf of the employers and unions? Is he satisfied that the productivity agreement there is anything other than "phoney", and will he say how small employers will be able to cope with increases of up to 35 per cent., as have been agreed by both sides?

§ Mr. Walker
My Department has not approved this settlement. Among other things, the agreement provides for the payment of lieu bonuses, which is a payment in lieu of productivity that is not evidenced. We have withheld approval for that part of the settlement, making it clear that we are prepared to approve payment of lieu bonuses up to 25 per cent., and we have asked the parties in the JIB to take another look at the settlement.

§ Mr. Ronald Atkins
Is not my hon. Friend confused by the Opposition saying at one moment that they want free negotiation while complaining the next moment when the guidelines are not observed? What do they want?

§ Mr. Walker
It is a confusing task to try to understand the Opposition's attitude when they are constantly pressing the Government to apply pay restraint yet complaining every time we do so.