Fire Service Dispute

HC Deb 24 January 1978 vol 942 cc1153-5

1. Mr. Madden

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what has been the total cost to date to his Department of the Fire Service dispute.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Dr. John Gilbert)

It will take some time to compile the total extra costs incurred by the Ministry of Defence during the firemen's strike, and I am not yet in a position to give the House a firm figure.

Mr. Madden

Will the Minister, even at this stage, give an estimate of the total cost and say what part of that total cost may fall on other bodies, including local authorities? Will he tell the House what contingency plans his Department may have, including the replacement of "green goddesses"?

Dr. Gilbert

I think it would be premature of me to try to give my hon. Friend an estimate of total costs at this stage. Several legal claims are involved, and it is far too early to make an assessment of their outcome. As to where the ultimate burden of the cost would fall, we would expect to be able to reclaim our extra costs from the civil Depart- ments where it is reasonable and fair to do so.

As my hon. Friend will recognise, the future of the "green goddesses" is a matter for the Home Secretary, but I understand that they are not now to be disposed of as was originally intended.

Mr. Hooson

Should not the whole of the cost be recovered by the Defence Department from the Home Office or the local authorities, as it is an extra burden on the Defence Vote?

Dr. Gilbert

I can assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that we shall not be backward in trying to see that no undue burden falls on the Defence Vote. I take his point.

Sir Ian Gilmour

Does not the right hon. Gentleman—to whom I offer my congratulations on his appointment as a Privy Councillor—agree that this would be an appropriate occasion for the House to express its gratitude to the Armed Forces for the way in which they carried out their duties during the strike?

Dr. Gilbert

I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for his kind remark.

I do not think that we should let any occasion go by without expressing the gratitude of the House and the country as a whole. My right hon. Friend has done that on more than one occasion. It might be appropriate to let the House know that in today's issue of the London Gazette there is an announcement that a staff sergeant has been awarded the Queen's Commendation for Brave Conduct as a result of his actions during the strike.

Mr. Pattie

Has the Minister made any attempt yet to assess the cost of the serious dislocation of training caused by Service men of all three Services having to be engaged in fire service duties?

Dr. Gilbert

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for raising the question. It is a matter which has given us concern because of the impact on the individual men involved. We are taking steps as far as possible to ensure that, where training courses are interrupted and are then subsequently completed, increases in pay which result from completion of training will be back-dated, so that men do not suffer as a result of their participation in this activity.