Armed Forces Pay Review Body

HC Deb 24 January 1978 vol 942 cc1161-3

8. Mr. Churchill

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will seek the opportunity of personally giving evidence to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body prior to the preparation of its report for the year 1978.

Mr. Mulley

No, Sir. My Department has presented to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body a number of papers on all aspects of Armed Forces pay and allowances. I am satisfied that this evidence is full and comprehensive, and that all the relevant information will be available to the Review Body.

Mr. Churchill

In the Secretary of State aware of the unprecedented crisis of morale in all three Armed Forces at present, particularly the crisis in recruitment on which his hon. Friend touched a moment ago, which will mean that the Royal Air Force strength will fall substantially below recruiting levels? Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that pilots who have applied for premature voluntary retirement have been told that they cannot take that step for five years because there are so many other personnel behind them in the queue to leave? Will he personally represent these matters to the Chairman of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body?

Mr. Mulley

All the relevant factors have been sent to the Review Body and have been dealt with informally at meetings with senior personnel officers of all three Services and in visits to Service establishments in discussions with all ranks. Therefore, I am satisfied that the Review Body has been made aware of the feelings of the Forces on this matter. The Review Body takes note of what my ministerial colleagues and I say and also of observations made in the House.

Mr. Litterick

Is it not the case that the level of labour turnover in all three Armed Services compares favourably with the level of labour turnover in the civilian economy?

Mr. Gwilym Roberts

They cannot get out.

Mr. Litterick

With friends such as that, who needs enemies? I was about to ask whether this indicates that the assertion by the hon. Member for Stretford (Mr. Churchill) about a crisis in morale in the Armed Services is ill-founded.

Mr. Mulley

The exceptional ability of the hon. Member for Stretford (Mr. Churchill) to exaggerate tends to cause him to use language which perhaps overstates the case. The main reason why pilots cannot be allowed premature release when they wish it arises from the extensive nature of pilot training. There is an understanding that they must complete a certain length of service before they can leave following the enormous amount of investment made on their behalf.

Mr. Rathbone

Is the Secretary of State aware that my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford (Mr. Churchill) is in no way wrong in his contention, because even at a relatively low level of pay a senior Army sergeant is paid approximately £690 less than a sub-officer on the top rate for whose job he has been standing in while undertaking duties during the firemen's strike?

Mr. Mulley

I do not for one moment wish to suggest that there is not great concern in the three Armed Services about all levels of pay and conditions. All the facts concerning this matter have been put to the Review Body. We must now await its report.