HC Deb 23 January 1978 vol 942 cc951-3
7. Mr. George Rodgers

asked the Secretary of State for Industry what is the total sum that has been made available to the private sector of industry from public funds in the form of grants and concessionary-rate loans since February 1974.

The Under-Secretary of State for Industry (Mr. Bob Cryer)

It is estimated that since February 1974 payments of about £1,062 million for grants and £126 million for concessionary-rate loans have been made under the Industry Act 1972 to the private sector of industry. The total figure of £1,188 million is at out-turn prices and is net of repayments. In addition, £557 million in the form of regional employment premium has been paid over this period.

Mr. Rodgers

Does my hon. Friend agree that these are sensational and formidable figures? Is it not apparent that some sectors of private industry would not have survived long without public support? Has my hon. Friend had any word about the Leader of the Opposition's intentions should her party ever achieve power again? Would she long tolerate this degree of public support and public subsidy?

Mr. Cryer

My hon. Friend will appreciate that the Opposition's policies, such as they are, are a matter for them. However, it would appear, from the occasional glimmerings of their policies that we receive, that they are prepared to cut public expenditure substantially in all areas except the individual constituencies of Opposition Members. They display their hyprocrisy by condemning public expenditure nationally but being quite happy to see it increase when they wish to make individual representations about firms in their constituencies.

Mr. Michael Marshall

Does the Minister accept that while the schemes exist the private sector would be mad not to take full advantage of them? What estimate has he made of the total involved on the many occasions when these sums need not have been taken up if private money had been sought?

Mr. Cryer

There have been many occasions on which private money has not been available or has not been available until the Department has made a gesture or given an indication that a grant or loan would be available. There is much that is unsatisfactory about the private money-raising market in this country. That is one of the aspects of the unsatisfactory performance of British manufacturing industry. There is no doubt that but for Government support in, for example, the clothing and textile industries, through temporary employment subsidy, those industries would have been in grave difficulties.

Mr. Ioan Evans

Can my hon. Friend give some details of the amount of help given to private industry through the temporary employment subsidy? In view of the important help that this has been in recent months, will the Government resist the EEC demands that the TES should be suspended?

Mr. Cryer

The matter is under consideration, but the view of both sides of industry which have made representations, including the unions, is that TES has been very important for the continued survival of many jobs, particularly in the clothing and textile industries, which are still our third largest employer, and also in a wide range of jobs. Those are considerations of the sort that the Government have very much in mind.

Mr. Norman Lamont

Will the Minister give the House figures for the amount paid by private enterprise to the Exchequer by way of corporation tax, rates paid by companies and employers' national insurance contributions? Does he agree that in total the amount vastly exceeds the figure mentioned and that without such payments there would not he any subsidies to other companies?

Mr. Cryer

No doubt the hon. Member will table a Question for detailed answer on that point. It is worth pointing out that there is a 100 per cent. tax allowance on investment in plant and machinery, which costs just over £2½ billion per annum. Rates are allowable against tax, which is not the case for the private individual. The hon. Gentleman's argument bears rather closer examination than he suggests.