HC Deb 17 January 1978 vol 942 cc239-41
13. Mr. Loyden

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if, in pursuance of her policy of secondary reorganisation, she is satisfied with the rate of development of sixth forms in comprehensive schools.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

Yes, where numbers of sixth forms are concerned. Twenty years ago only one secondary school in five had a sixth form. Today, the proportion is one in two. However, I am less satisfied with numbers in sixth forms and staying-on rates. I am concerned that very small sixth forms—and 40 per cent. of sixth forms in comprehensive schools contain fewer than 50 pupils—may not be able to offer an acceptable choice of courses and subjects.

Mr. Loyden

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in order to establish a sixth form in a comprehensive school it is necessary to retain brighter pupils? Is she aware that at comprehensive schools such as Speke, in my constituency, for instance, parental choice is making that difficult, if not impossible? Does she now think that it is time to look at the matter in the interests of the pupils rather than of the parents, who are inclined to snobbery about education?

Mrs. Williams

We try to do so, and have recommended either that schools should work together to offer a sufficiently wide range of sixth form courses or that authorities should consider the possibility of sixth form colleges and tertiary colleges where the alternative is a very small sixth form. We have received no proposals along these lines from Liverpool, but we shall certainly look forward to doing so.

Mr. Marten

Where there is a comprehensive school in a rural area, with a school population of about 1,000, which is rising, does the right hon. Lady not think that it should have a sixth form to make it a whole school rather than a half-school?

Mrs. Williams

At every stage in this matter, we must bear in mind whether boys and girls will stay at school, if, because of transport difficulties, there is no sixth form. However, a sixth form of 70-plus is roughly the minimum for offering a viable range of courses, so that in rural areas part of the answer lies in closer links between schools and further education colleges.

Mr. Gerry Fowler

Does my hon. Friend accept that in some rural areas it is virtually impossible to share pupils at sixth-form level and that it is highly desirable that we have firm guidance on the development of 16–19 education, preferably indicating a sixth-form college or, even better, a tertiary college solution where that is practicable?

Mrs. Williams

On this extremely difficult issue I said that we hope that authorities will consider one of the three possibilities that I have outlined. It is essential that authorities bear in mind the need to offer a viable range of courses and do not skim the rest of a school by having all the teachers taken into small sixth forms.

Mr. Beith

Is the Secretary of State aware that, although we believe, with her, that the sixth-form college system may be a very good one in some areas, we expect her to uphold the comprehensive principle in the discussions she has with local authorities about small areas within which there may be a school with a sixth form and a school without a sixth form? Is she aware that in that situation we run the risk of bringing back the secondary modern school, in which case the staying-on rate may be affected in the school in which there is no sixth form?

Mrs. Williams

I hope that the hon. Gentleman does not misunderstand me. I do not believe that mixed 11–16 and 11–18 schools are a good answer to this problem. In such areas I think that either a consortium of sixth forms or a sixth form college is much more appropriate.