Energy Policy (Hansard, 9 January 1978)

§ 1. Mr. Biffen
asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he will make a statement detailing the implications for British energy policy as a result of the proposed enlargement of the European Community.

§ The Secretary of State for Energy (Mr. Anthony Wedgwood Benn)
The process of enlargement of the Community is still at an early stage, but nothing has been said which leads me to expect it to have any significant implications for the United Kingdom's own energy policy.

§ Mr. Biffen
As there is a considerable oil-refining capacity in Spain, will the Secretary of State indicate whether he thinks that that capacity might have any impact upon his own objective of securing the maximum possible refining within the United Kingdom of oil from the North Sea? Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to report to the House any observations that he may receive on this subject from the European Commission?

§ Mr. Benn
As I said in my initial answer, these matters have not arisen. On the general issue of refining policy, the hon. Gentleman knows that there was a discussion at the last Council and the previous one. I have made our own position clear, namely, that I must consult the oil companies and the trade unions in this country about the development of our refining policy, and that the Government's statement of broad objective on the refining of North Sea oil stands as it did when my right hon. Friend the former Secretary of State for Energy made a statement in 1974.

§ Mr. Hooley
As the candidates for admission are likely to be Mediterranean countries, is it not wise to hammer home to the Commission the importance of the use of energy sources such as solar power and other benign sources, which could be much better alternatives than nuclear energy?

§ Mr. Benn
I understand what my hon. Friend is saying, but I consider that it would be both premature and misunderstood if I were to argue for federal control of energy policy in the Commission, to which I am totally opposed, and start by saying that it should apply to those who themselves are only contemplating the possibility of entry.

§ 22. Mr. William Hamilton
asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he will make a statement on his latest talks with other EEC Ministers on energy policy.

§ Mr. Benn
I apologise, Mr. Speaker, for the length of the reply.
The EEC Energy Council of Ministers met in Brussels on 13th December 1977. The Council considered the energy situation in the Community and the world and a report from the Commission on the achievement of Community energy policy objectives for 1985. It reached agreement on objectives for reducing the Community's dependence on external energy sources and for reducing the rate of growth of energy consumption, and commissioned further study of this question.
In the field of energy conservation, the Council agreed a framework directive on minimum performance standards for heat generators. Plant for which type testing is not practicable will be excluded pending further technical study. Ministers were also favourably disposed towards a draft regulation for support of energy—saving demonstration projects on which further work was commissioned.
The Council did not discuss the draft directive on the modernisation of existing buildings. I much regret, however, that the Council was unable to reach agreement on proposals to assist the Community's coal industry by support for construction of power stations using coal and by coal stocking aids. The Council also discussed the situation of the refinery industry in the Community and agreed an outline of its work programme for 1978.

§ Mr. Hamilton
I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, but can he spell out in rather more detail what occurred regarding conservation policy, and will he consider publishing a White Paper on that matter? Further, can he say exactly what the position is regarding the draft directive on the modernisation of existing buildings, since that is an extremely important part of the same problem?

§ Mr. Benn
If my hon. Friend will allow me to say so, I do not think that it is for me to publish a White Paper about Community energy policy. I made a statement to the House just before Christmas on our own conservation policy, and I have strongly urged—[Interruption.] I take hon. Members to be supporting me—that the Energy Council should meet in public so that everyone may know what goes on and that its documents should be made as widely available as are our domestic energy documents. Were that to be done, it would be found that there were technical problems and conflicts of interest in the Community, just as there are in the United Kingdom, which hold up progress in certain areas. But, for my part, the more sensible co-operation there can be within the Community on energy matters, the happier I shall be.

§ Mr. Maurice Macmillan
Did the Commission get round to discussing the longer-term difficulties and the need to develop safe methods of generating power by nuclear energy owing to the likelihood of fossil fuels becoming too valuable a source of raw materials for them to continue to be burned in the 20 to 30-year period?

§ Mr. Benn
Everyone in the world concerned with energy policy is engaged on exactly those matters, and what are called the "COCONUC" options—the coal conservation and nuclear options for the future—are widely shared. But I have made clear to the Commission and in the Council of Ministers that decisions about nuclear policy must be made by Ministers accountable to the House of Commons, and it would not be acceptable for decisions about nuclear systems or the planning and operation of nuclear power stations or the disposal of waste to be transferred from member States to the Commission. I think that this view is pretty widely shared among member 1240 States. These matters must be held within the responsibility of Ministers and their own Parliaments.

§ Mr. Heffer
Were there any discussions relating to the selling price of United Kingdom oil, in view of various Press reports over a period that there is an attempt by the Common Market countries to ensure that the price of United Kingdom oil will be the same on the Continent as it is here?

§ Mr. Benn
The world arrangement for oil prices is that they are dictated by the Gulf price, and we sell North Sea oil already not only at the world price but slightly above it, because it has a low sulphur content and attracts a premium price. There has never been any question of our supplying oil or wishing to supply oil to ourselves in the United Kingdom at a price different from the world price. I think that the anxieties that exist about a possible intrusion into British oil policy emerge much more from the telegram that was received by the hon. Member for Harrow, East (Mr. Dykes), which came out in a recent debate, whereby it appeared that the Conservative Party had been trying to get the Commission to intervene directly in the operation of the BNOC and our participation policy.