HC Deb 22 February 1978 vol 944 cc1424-6
7. Mr. Wall

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will raise in the Security Council the presence of 27,000 Cubans in Africa as a threat to world peace.

14. Mr. William Shelton

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will raise in the Security Council as a threat to world peace the existence of Soviet and Cuban armed intervention in the internal affairs of Angola, Ethiopia and South Yemen.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Edward Rowlands)

We have for some time been trying to bring the situation in the Horn of Africa before the Security Council and will continue to do so.

Mr. Wall

Were not these numbers verified by the American Secretary of State, and do they not present a much greater threat to the people of the world than does the situation in South Africa? Will he recognise this and do something about it?

Mr. Rowlands

We have taken considerable political and diplomatic initiatives, in conjunction with our Western partners, to try to get negotiations going in the Horn of Africa, where the issue is of paramount importance. We shall continue to do that.

Mr. Shelton

Will the Minister confirm that Her Majesty's Government believe peace and detente to be indivisible? Is it not time that Her Majesty's Government let the Soviet Union know that our trade links and our economic links with that country will suffer until they call off their Cubans and East Germans?

Mr. Rowlands

The issue of trade is much wider, but we make the point—and have made it repeatedly—that detente cannot just be an East-West and European question but must extend universally and include Africa.

Mr. MacFarquhar

Has my hon. Friend or his right hon. Friend taken any active steps to talk to the Soviet Union, at either ambassador or Foreign Minister level, about the presence of the Cubans, however many there may be, in the Horn of Africa?

Mr. Rowlands

Yes, most certainly. This issue has been raised with the Soviet Union on many occasions.

Mr. Amery

Will the hon. Gentleman agree that unless some counter-action is taken the influence of the Western Powers—Britain and America—and of Japan, and so on, is very likely to go by default? Although we all understand the importance of the Organisation for African Unity's principle of respect of frontiers, is not response to the advance of the new Soviet colonial empire something which should have priority?

Mr. Rowlands

I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman is suggesting that we should embark on a great arms race in the Horn of Africa. What we have said repeatedly is that we certainly cannot get arms involved in the present Ogadenese situation. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that what is import- ant is to try to get negotiations going. That has been the main burden of our effort.

Mr. Ioan Evans

Does my hon. Friend agree that, although the situation in the Horn of Africa is possibly a threat to peace, greater threats to world peace are the illegal occupation of Namibia by South Africa, the illegal regime in Rhodesia, and the apartheid system in South Africa? In view of the fact that the United Nations has declared this coming year as a year against apartheid, surely that is the issue that the Security Council should be considering.

Mr. Rowlands

I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of trying to find a settlement of the Namibian problem. We have been very much involved, with the five Western Powers, in trying to find an international acceptable solution to the problem of Namibia. That is where our efforts should be directed.

Mr. John Davies

Is the Minister concerned that the prospect of Cuban involvement is tending to become part of the permanent landscape of Africa? Does he not agree that this seems to be a very real danger?

May I revert to the question put by my hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall)? Is not this matter really a threat to peace, which should be discussed further in the Security Council?

Mr. Rowlands

We do not disagree about the importance and seriousness of Cuban intervention in a number of parts of Africa. What we are discussing is how to deal with it. We believe that, particularly in the context of the Horn of Africa, we must get negotiations going and try to solve an extremely difficult problem. We must try to find the best way forward to deal with the question of Cuban or Soviet intervention in these very serious issues.