HC Deb 15 February 1978 vol 944 cc435-9
Mr. Robert Hughes

(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the decision by the Faroese Government to close to British trawlers without notice part of the fishing grounds in which only recently agreement was reached.

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Bruce Millan)

The closure of these fishing grounds is contrary to our understanding of the provisional agreement recently reached between the European Commission and the Faroese authorities. We have therefore taken the matter up as a matter of urgency with the Commission and with the Faroese authorities and expressed our serious concern at this development.

Mr. Hughes

I thank my right hon. Friend for that forthright reply. Will he continue to press the matter as hard as possible and make the authorities aware of the importance of these grounds, especially to the British trawling fleet? If this means that the agreement can suddenly be set aside will he consider reviewing our part of the agreement with the Faroes? Will my right hon. Friend also confirm that he is discussing this bilaterally with the Faroese authorities?

Mr. Millan

Discussions about the agreement with the Faroes is a matter for the Commission. We are parties to the agreement, but it is a provisional agreement and it is to come up for formal adoption by the Council of Ministers. The Faroese Government are saying that a particular part of the ring around the Faroes which was to be open to our fishermen is to be closed until May for conservation reasons. We do not accept that this is part of the agreement. It is that question which we are investigating with all urgency.

Sir John Gilmour

Can the Secretary of State say whether access is being given to the line fishermen who fish in Faroese waters since I understand that we give reciprocal rights to Faroese line fishermen to fish in our waters?

Mr. Millan

This does not affect line fishermen. I should prefer to see exactly what the position is. This is a rather confused situation. I am not clear whether it has arisen from a misunderstanding or whether it is a deliberate attempt by the Faroese to restrict the agreement. If it is the latter, it is a serious development and would call into question whether we should have reciprocal agreements of this kind.

Mr. Donald Stewart

I support the Secretary of State's objection to the breaking of the agreement. But does he recognise that the Faroese action is in support of the claim of all countries to safeguard their valuable fishing rights? Should not the Secretary of State continue to support the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in his efforts to secure a 50-mile limit round the British Isles?

Mr. Millan

The right hon. Member should also recognise that in reciprocal agreements one expects the other party to carry out its side of the agreement.

Mr. James Johnson

I accept that this is a confused situation, but is it not another example of the slow diminution of our distant water fleets, bearing in mind the exclusion of Hull vessels from Russian and Icelandic waters—although the cod war now seems to be in the dim and distant past? What are the Government doing? Are they honestly standing up and fighting on behalf of our people?

Mr. Millan

Of course we are. We are talking about a reciprocal agreement. It is a question whether what we can offer the Faroese Government is acceptable to them and whether what they can offer us is acceptable to us. It is not a question of an internal regime in the Community. Basically this is a Third country agreement.

We have reached a provisional agreement which our industry considers to be only marginally acceptable. Indeed, some sections of the industry do not consider that it is acceptable. Therefore, any further restrictions on our fishing must call into question the whole of the agreement. We are still waiting for clarification about exactly what is at stake.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Is the Secretary of State aware that, important though this is for its own sake, it raises important questions about other Third countries, such as Norway? May we have an assurance in relation to any reciprocal arrangements negotiated through the EEC that he will be resolute that if these countries are hard to our fishermen we shall be equally hard back?

Mr. Millan

I can give that assurance. There is some connection between the Faroese and Norwegian agreements. We must look at them as one in terms of the quantities of fish that are available to British fishermen. We are alert to this point.

Mr. McNamara

I am sure that the House will hope that this is only teething trouble in the emergence of a new agreement and that a proper solution will be found. But does the situation not underline the need, now that the talks in Europe have broken down, for us to produce a straightforward, direct conservation policy to protect our national interests so that we know where we stand and so that the fishing industry and the public know where they stand?

Mr. Millan

That is a separate question. We are considering conservation measures at the moment. Of course these conservation measures cannot be discriminatory so far as the rest of the Community is concerned. I hope that the House will not place too high an expectation simply upon conservation measures, although particular measures, such as the banning of herring fishing in the North Sea and the Norwegian pout box, are important and we shall see that they are maintained.

Mr. Watt

Does the Secretary of State acknowledge that there can be no long-term solution to the Norwegian and Faroese situation as long as we are hamstrung by the EEC fishing policy? Can we now expect the Minister to come to the House and announce that he is prepared to take unilateral action to protect the interests of the British fishing industry?

Mr. Millan

We have already taken unilateral action on conservation measures. We have made clear where we stand. We are ready to do that again if we believe that it is necessary to protect our interests.

Mr. Fell

The Secretary of State said that the herring quotas would be maintained. What did he mean by that?

Mr. Millan

I did not say that.

Mr. Fell

I am sorry, but the right hon. Gentleman did say that the herring quotas would be maintained. Those are the words that he used. For how long does he think that they will be maintained?

Mr. Millan

If I did say that, I did not mean it. Perhaps the hon. Member misunderstood or perhaps it was a slip of the tongue. There is a ban on herring fishing in the North Sea. I am saying that we intend to see that the ban on herring fishing in the North Sea is maintained.

Mr. Teddy Taylor

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the report of the incidents in Box 1 off the Faroes is regarded by men in the middle-water fleet as almost the last straw, following their being hounded out of traditional waters and being presented with a quota of 7,000 tonnes off the Faroes, a third of their catch in this area in recent years, and then within a few days being warned out of one of the areas specified in the provisional agreement?

On the general issue, will the right hon. Gentleman accept that there is a strong feeling in Scotland that, while the agreement makes valuable concessions to the Faroes, the French and the Germans, it goes against the interests of the middle-water fleet, largely based in Aberdeen, which believes that it will result in considerable unemployment and a considerable reduction in catch? Therefore, if those problems continue, will he make it absolutely clear that further incidents will result in the valuable concessions to the Faroese also being withdrawn?

Mr. Millan

I have already said that we are dealing with a reciprocal agreement, and if our fishing opportunities disappear, that means that the agreement is abandoned and the Faroese fishing opportunities will disappear as well. We felt that on balance the agreement we reached last week, after rather difficult negotiations, was worth having, in view of the respective quantities of fish to be caught by the Faroes and member States of the EEC. But I am well aware of what the industry feels about the agreement. It believes that it is very much on the borders of acceptability, and if we were to find that the opportunities were to be further limited and that the quotas we now have could not be caught in the Faroese waters, I repeat that that would call the whole agreement into question.