HC Deb 15 February 1978 vol 944 cc415-7
6. Mr. Robert Hughes

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on his discussion with Aberdeen College of Education and other interested parties on the future of the college.

Mr. McElhone

At a meeting on 13th February between representatives of my Department, Aberdeen College of Education, Robert Gordon's Institute of Technology and Grampian Regional Council, arrangements were made for further discussions among all the parties concerned to ensure that surplus accommodation in the college is put to the best possible use.

Mr. Hughes

In future discussions, will my hon. Friend take into account the concern expressed recently by Mr. Scotland, the college principal, at the fact that there could be a shortage of teachers in North-East Scotland in the near future and on the question whether it is possible for existing lecturers to find places in other disciplines which may come to the college? Will he guarantee that the 29 lecturers at present under threat of redundancy will not be compulsorily made redundant and that this matter will be dealt with by voluntary measures?

Mr. McElhone

My hon. Friend takes a keen interest in this subject. He will understand that I cannot give him the sort of guarantee for which he asks, but I can assure him that my officials met college officials on Monday and had serious discussions on this matter. As my right hon. Friend indicated in his statement on the colleges, it is his intention to ensure that there is natural wastage and voluntary redundancy to meet the standards that he would like to see in order that we can keep the colleges open as the House wishes.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in relation to the area served by Aberdeen College of Education there are a greater number of qualified applicants for entry into teacher training in Scotland than the quota that the college is allowed to take? Many suitable applicants are having to go elsewhere in Scotland.

Will he give an assurance, in relation to the consideration of future quotas, that the situation of fully qualified applicants is taken into account in establishing the quota for Aberdeen?

Mr. McElhone

On one aspect of that matter I can say that a report came from the prinicipal of the college, I think to every Scottish hon. Member, pointing out what the hon. Member is saying. However, he compliments the Secretary of State in terms of the increase in the number of lecturers for in-service training. One has to accept, in an area of declining pupil rolls, that one cannot keep on providing teachers who will immediately face unemployment. I assure the hon. Member that we have taken serious account of the document supplied by the principal. As my officials are in discussion regarding the possible extension of the rolls in the Grampian area, all that I can promise is that the matter will be given serious consideration.

Mr. Henderson

Is the Minister seriously telling us that qualified applicants from the North-East who would be able to go to Aberdeen College are being rerouted and directed to colleges elsewhere in Scotland, and that when they have finished their education they will be going back to the North-East to fill the shortage caused by the wastage in teachers up there? Is there any sense in the Government's policy?

Mr. McElhone

There is no sense in the remarks made by the hon. Member. He and most hon. Members prevailed upon my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to keep open all the colleges of education. He was very active in that, and he must accept that because of that decision, which was welcomed by the House, with falling pupil rolls we cannot possibly guarantee all the places for young people who wish to become teachers. There is no question of rerouting anyone. The position in Aberdeen is repeated in all the colleges of education in Scotland.