HC Deb 13 February 1978 vol 944 cc4-7
3. Mr. Skeet

asked the Secretary of State for Energy when he expects planning agreements will be negotiated with the State corporations for which he is responsible.

The Secretary of State for Energy (Mr. Anthony Wedgwood Benn)

As I announced in November, the Government, National Coal Board and coal mining unions have entered into an agreement on joint planning procedures, embracing a formal planning agreement. I have informed the House of my intention of developing suitable joint planning arrangements with the other publicly-owned fuel industries.

Mr. Skeet

The Secretary of State must be aware that that is only one corporation of which he is in charge. Does he propose to give a specific directive to the BNOC under the terms of Section 4 of the Petroleum and Submarine Pipe-Lines Act 1975 to order it to enter into a planning agreement? Does he intend to make the granting of Government contracts and finance subject to the conclusion of planning agreements?

Mr. Benn

The tripartite talks in the fuel industries have become most advanced in respect of the mining industry. I am developing them elsewhere. The participation discussions with the oil companies permit development of a similar kind—

Mr. Skeet

Not planning agreements.

Mr. Benn

That is quite correct. I hope that those discussions will become tripartite. The refinery discussions have become so. I hope to make progress on that basis.

Mr. Gordon Wilson

Will the right hon. Gentleman expand on his reply? Is he aware that in Scotland there is a lot of worry about the fact that petrochemical developments are unlikely to take place because of the individual requirements of oil companies for their own refining activities? Will he enter into negotiations with BNOC so that participation oil can be used to encourage the expansion of the petrochemical industry in Scotland from Scottish oil resources if individual oil companies prove to be non-responsive?

Mr. Benn

I have had the first tripartite meeting with the oil companies and the unions about refinery problems and downstream activities. I have in mind the desirability of developments in this area, but I have to take account of the fact that there is extra capacity at the moment.

Mr. Skinner

What will the planning agreement with the coal industry do? Will there be on the agenda matters such as wages, quite apart from safety? Will it go in depth into finding out how we are to sell coal over the medium and long term, bearing in mind that the Common Market countries are buying very little coal and that we have more than 30 million tons of coal at the pit head? Is the Minister aware that, if the productivity schemes work as he says they will and as the Opposition say they will, there will be even more coal to sell? What planning agreement does he have for selling coal?

Mr. Benn

As the hon. Member for Bedford (Mr. Skeet) and my hon. Friend know, the planning agreement will cover forward marketing, prospects for coal, the objectives for output and productivity, financial results with implications for prices and borrowing, investment plans, capital investment, product and process development and exports, The agreement will cover the whole area. If we look back at the record of the mining industry over the past year, with the stock support for coalburn in Scotland and Wales, the Government increase in support for the pension scheme, Drax B, early retirement and so on, it will be seen that the industry has a fine record.

Mr. Tom King

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, since we are given to understand by the Government that the failure to reach planning agreements in the private sector has been due to the intransigence of private sector companies, we note with interest that very little progress seems to have been made in the public sector? If it is not possible to achieve planning agreements, would it not be a good start if we had a few financial targets for some of the nationalised industries as a beginning?

Mr. Benn

The last Conservative Government wrecked the financial plans of every nationalised industry. I say that because it should be put on the record. There is a White Paper on financial targeting in preparation. The hon. Gentleman must know, or should know, that the relations between the Government and the nationalised industries have been, bilaterally, on the same basis as a planning agreement for many years. What we are trying to do is to make them tripartite.

Mr. Skeet

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I wish to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible date.