HC Deb 08 February 1978 vol 943 cc1433-5
5. Mr. Molloy

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will seek to amend Section 138 of the Local Government Act 1972 to enable him to direct local authorities to assist ratepayers who have suffered from a disaster.

Mr. Shore

No, Sir. Local authorities are best placed to assess the impact of emergencies and disasters in their areas and the needs of those affected.

Mr. Molloy

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Under-Secretary has contributed magnificently to helping the London borough of Ealing, particularly Greenford, to get some assistance from the local authority, which has dithered in a remarkable way? It would appear that the councillors have been appallingly misled by some officers of the council. Will my right hon. Friend therefore reconsider his reply and introduce legislation which would enable local authorities to act immediately, as some local authorities did to alleviate the distressing circumstances in which some people found themselves, particularly in the London borough of Ealing, as a result of the floods last August?

Mr. Shore

I thank my hon. Friend for his tribute to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary. I am very sorry to hear that the officers concerned seemed to be in doubt about the meaning of the powers that are available to them under Section 138. These are very wide powers, and in my view we certainly do not need to amend them. I shall consider whether we should find some way of making certain that the local authorities understand just how full those powers are.

Mr. Anthony Grant

Does the Minister agree that, with the problem of flooding, prevention is better than cure and that ratepayers as a whole simply cannot meet the large expense involved? That is the role of central Government. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the tedious dispute between the Ministry of Agriculture and the Greater London Council in this respect? Will he use his best endeavours to bring the parties together to resolve this matter in order to help people such as my constituents who have suffered?

Mr. Shore

Flood prevention is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture. I shall have a word with him in the light of what the hon. Member has said.

Mr. Roy Hughes

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the biggest disaster to ratepayers in recent years was the reorganisation of local government carried out by the Conservatives? Does he agree also that there is an urgent need to cut bureaucracy and to give back to the towns and cities the control of services that they have enjoyed for centuries?

Mr. Shore

My hon. Friend makes a point which is, I believe, generally accepted by hon. and right hon. Members on both sides of the House. But these matters are the subject of further thought, and I cannot take the point much further than that on this occasion.

Sir George Young

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that in London the power to assist ratepayers rests with the district councils and that, therefore, it would be wrong to criticise the GLC for not exercising powers it does not possess?

Mr. Shore

My information is that, although the London boroughs have such powers, there is a concurrent GLC power as well.

Mr. Alison

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the machinery and resources are available, whether at national or local government level, to bring into operation complete rescue or aid, financial or otherwise, for people involved in disasters? Is he aware of the catastrophe which can occur to an individual—such as loss of home or livelihood—which is at least as serious as the possible loss of a job? Does he agree that the scale of resources for assisting here should be, for example, on the lines of the scale of resources that we consider appropriate to support employment in declining industries?

Mr. Shore

I am aware how great the impact of a natural disaster can be on a particular community and on individuals within it. From reports that we have received on areas which experienced flood and gale damage last month and in November, I believe that the local machinery, to use that word in its broadest sense, has on the whole acted very quickly and effectively. However, I shall study the reports closely.