HC Deb 02 February 1978 vol 943 cc669-71
4. Mr. Townsend

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will make a statement on the rise in juvenile crime.

Mr. John

The Government share the concern expressed in many quarters about the level and seriousness of juvenile crime; but in fact in 1975 there was a 5 per cent. decrease in the number of juveniles found guilty of or cautioned for indictable offences per 100,000 of the population in the age group, followed by a 4 per cent. decrease in 1976.

Mr. Townsend

Does the Minister not fel that in this sphere magistrates should have rather more say and social workers rather less? If we had more bobbies on the beat, would not that be a good deterrent? If so, will he bear in mind that in London we are to have fewer?

Mr. John

The cause of juvenile crime is a more subtle and complicated question than can be answered by a mere cry that the magistrates should have more powers. After all, there is no evidence that a more restrictive environment checks juvenile crime.

Mr. Ioan Evans

We should be pleased to note the slight reduction in the last two years. Will my hon. Friend encourage magistrates to use the community service orders that have worked successfully where they have been applied by the courts? Does he agree that the community service order is a better alternative than remanding juvenile delinquents to borstal or to other forms of detention?

Mr. John

I always encourage the use of non-custodial dispositions where they seem appropriate.

Mr. Sims

Has the hon. Gentleman seen British Rail's recent report on vandalism and the reference to the extent of vandalism by children of 7, 8 and 9 years of age? Does he not think that there is room for a change in our law, which prevents youngsters of those ages from being brought before the courts unless they are found to have deprived home backgrounds?

Mr. John

The age of criminal responsibility is 10 years. It is already lower than in most Continental countries. I do not think that it would be the wish of the House to reduce it further.

Mr. David Howell

The Minister talks about a "mere cry" that the magistrates should have more power. Is he treating this matter correctly? Is he not aware of the growing concern that magistrates lack the ability to imprison young offenders where appropriate? Is he prepared to consider changes in the law to meet this genuine and growing concern?

Mr. John

The hon. Gentleman should use his words correctly. There is no power to imprison juveniles at all. What we are talking about is a small minority of hard-core juveniles. I favour non-custodial rather than custodial dispositions, so that those who can be turned away from a life of crime by constructive means at that age may be so turned away.