HC Deb 02 February 1978 vol 943 cc681-2
13. Mr. George Rodgers

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is yet in a position to assess the overall cost of the recent strike action by the Fire Brigades Union.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Dr. Shirley Summerskill)

No, Sir. It will be some time before the extra costs arising from the provision of Service assistance to fire authorities can be fully assessed.

Mr. Rodgers

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the cost—obviously substantial—will demonstrate the value of the fire service to the community? Is it not disgraceful that the Conservative leader of the Norfolk County Council, addressing the County Council Association, should have spoken in a hostile and offensive fashion about the negotiations and the agreement that has been reached? Would it be as well for the Home Department to advise local authorities which are threatening to cut down on fire services that that would be a dangerous and hazardous procedure?

Dr. Summerskill

It would be premature for me to attempt to estimate the total cost of the burden that will fall on fire authorities. They will have to pay Ministry of Defence costs, which do not include the pay of Service men. All costs, apart from pay, will have to be included. At this stage I cannot say what that will mean.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

The Minister referred to Ministry of Defence costs. Were there not in fact savings to the Government by employing under-paid troops to do the firemen's work, with no overtime pay for it?

Dr. Summerskill

The hon. and gallant Gentleman has posed a completely different question. I am sure that everyone appreciates the work done by the troops during the firemen's dispute. I cannot estimate the cost.

Mr. Skinner

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Tory-controlled Derbyshire County Council decided over the weekend to cut fire cover for all household hereditaments from two pumps to one pump at every fire? Should not the Home Department intervene to alert not only Derbyshire County Council ratepayers but, more importantly, the bigoted Tory-controlled council which is proposing to act in such a dilatory fashion?

Dr. Summerskill

Certain standards are set by the Home Department to which fire authorities must adhere. It is for each fire authority to conform to those standards in the best way that it can.