HC Deb 01 February 1978 vol 943 cc441-3
9. Mr. Newens

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will institute a public inquiry into the adequacy of bus services in London and its surrounding areas.

Mr. Horam

The level of bus services is primarily a matter for the local authorities and operators concerned, but my right hon. Friend is carefully monitoring the bus situation in London and its surrounding areas.

Mr. Newens

Is my hon. Friend aware that the bus services in Harlow and West Essex continue to be subject to continual cancellations, despite the efforts of management, with the result that the travelling public find it necessary to make other arrangements and there are increasing difficulties in making the buses pay? Is it not clear that the structure based upon the London Country Bus Service, controlled from Reigate, to the south of London, is totally wrong, and that a public inquiry should be instituted in order to detect what is wrong and to put it right so that the public have a much better service?

Mr. Horam

I understand my hon. Friend's concern about this. Indeed, he is right. There have been real problems with the London Country Bus Service. It inherited an old fleet and inadequate maintenance facilities. This is only very slowly being put right. Whether the struc ture of the organisation is wrong is a different question. We must give it a little more time to see whether it can put things right within the existing structure.

Mr. Dykes

It is obviously difficult for the Government to intervene directly in these matters, but, if they did, the most powerful searchlight could be focused upon this problem. Does the Minister accept that there is a special problem in the outer London boroughs, including Harrow, with awkward bus routes, cancellations without warning for journeys beyond London—as the hon. Member for Harlow (Mr. Newens) said—very awkward route configurations, which need to be brought up to date and rationalised, and a host of other problems, such as long delays between buses, and so on? It the Government give the right push to this kind of inquiry, we could begin the long job of reforming London bus services, which is long overdue.

Mr. Horam

I do not think that a special inquiry of this kind at this point would serve much purpose. The GLC has very recently accepted some proposals from London Transport concerning the bunching of buses, so progress is being made in that area. Equally, as I have said, we are aware of the problems in outer London areas arising from the delays in the London Country Bus Service. That is why we are specially monitoring the situation.

Dr. McDonald

Will the Minister also investigate the high rates of interest on loans to London Country Buses, charged by the National Bus Company, and the inadequate supply of spare parts for those buses, which make the bus service in Thurrock both totally inadequate and extremely expensive?

Mr. Horam

With respect to my hon. Friend, I think that the central problem is not the level of interest rate charged in the case of the National Bus Company. The loan charge has been exceptionally low—roughly 4 per cent.—so the London Country Bus Service started with that unique advantage. I think that the problem is more to do with the nature of the system and the inheritance of the buses and maintenance workshops.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

May we take it from the Minister's last reply but one that he will consider sympathetically the difficulties in peripheral areas, such as Epping Forest, where elderly people without cars have no alternative form of transport?

Mr. Horam

Indeed, that is precisely my point. We have a special relationship with the National Bus Company that ensures that we get accurate and up-to-date information on its services operating through the London Country Bus Service. We shall continue to monitor the situation carefuly.

Mr. Spearing

Does my hon. Friend agree that adequacy in respect of bus services cannot be measured by the number of buses on the road or, I am told, even by lost miles, as London Transport persists in doing? Does he agree that it must be seen from the point of view of the adequacy of the interval of service as seen by the passenger? The London boroughs of Newham and Hammersmith have pioneered measurement in that regard, and London Transport has not yet done that. Is it not about time that London Transport implemented this realistic method of quality measurement?

Mr. Horam

I know that my hon. Friend studies these matters very carefully. I am sure that he will be aware that London Transport has recently brought forward a scheme to reduce the irregularity and infrequency of bus services. I believe that it is spending as much as £4.7 million on this. I mentioned in an earlier reply that London Transport is well aware of the situation about which my hon. Friend is talking.