HC Deb 14 December 1978 vol 960 cc896-9
10. Mr. Clegg

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when next he will attend a meeting of the Council of Fisheries Ministers of the EEC.

Mr. John Silkin

No date has yet been fixed for the next meeting of the EEC Council of Fisheries Ministers, but I expect one to be convened early in the new year.

There is a possibility that a Fisheries Council will be needed before the end of the year to agree interim arrangements for 1979 pending a CFP settlement.

Mr. Clegg

Is the Minister aware that we hope that at the meeting, when it comes, he will be successful in getting a settlement which would be approved by this House? But at the same time will he take up with the Fisheries Ministers the question of compensation for those fishermen already made redundant through no fault of their own? Will he perhaps argue for compensation on the lines of the amounts given to steelworkers by the EEC under similar schemes?

Mr. Silkin

The question of restructuring the industry is vital, but it clearly must wait upon a settlement of the common fisheries policy, otherwise we simply do not know for what sort of industry we are catering and who may be made redundant. But I take the hon. Gentleman's point. It is a very fair one to make and it will be one of the factors which will need to be discussed and agreed in any settlement.

Mr. James Johnson

In view of the intransigent and blunt opposition of the German Minister, who was the chairman of the last meeting, and in view of his behaviour there, would it not be a good thing to defer the next meeting for as long as possible? Does not my right hon. Friend believe, as most Members of this House believe, that we shall get a squarer deal in the new year with a new chairman?

Mr. Silkin

We shall get a square deal, in my view, when the basic principles that the United Kingdom has continued to enunciate arc recognised and accepted by our Common Market partners. The chairmanship changes anyway on 1st January.

Mr. Henderson

Is the Minister aware that when our boats go to fish in Norwegian waters they are required to report their position when they arrive and when they leave? Will he raise this at the next EEC fisheries meeting and make it clear that we could extend that principle to all foreign boats coming into our waters? Does he agree that he ought to do so in preparation for any new policy or agreement that is reached?

Mr. Silkin

This is a question of management which deserves very careful consideration. I am impressed with the way in which the Norwegians are handling the matter, and it is one which is very near to our thoughts at this moment.

Mr. Warren

I recognise the need for tough attitudes in negotiations in the EEC, but may I ask the Minister to tell us why he is not introducing the essential conservation measures required by inshore fishermen here? There will otherwise be nothing left to negotiate.

Mr. Silkin

I should have thought that the conservation measures we have introduced, and which are already in operation, with one possible exception at this moment—the deferment on the question of nephrops size—were as effective as we need to have them. These are all national measures. None of them is at the moment a community measure.

Mr. Austin Mitchell

When my right hon. Friend next meets his Common Market counterparts, will he indicate to them that he has the support not only of a united fishing industry but of that rarest of all commodities, a united House of Commons, and that there can be no compromise on Britain's basic demands for a 12-mile limit, a dominant preference for British vessels up to the 50 miles, and the continued application of national conservation measures in the waters up to 200 miles?

Mr. Silkin

I try to tell my counterparts that at every Council meeting. Sometimes I wonder whether the interpreters are at fault.

Mr. Peyton

I share the right hon. Gentleman's hope that he will be successful in persuading the other members of the Council of Fisheries Ministers to accept the basic principles of the case he has put forward—principles which have been put forward from all parts of the House—but will he take an early opportunity to shed a little light on the formal proposals which he put last time to the Council? If I may say so, they were somewhat opaque, and even the German Minister—to whom I do not wish to give support at all—could be excused if he rejected them because he could not understand them.

Mr. Silkin

I do not want to go into quarrels about the chairmanship—although, believe me, it is very easy to do so—but what I can say is this. If the German president or any of our members of the Council found these proposals opaque or difficult to comprehend —I fully understand that they might be so—the right thing to do would have been to discuss them and to ask for elucidation of them. Had that been done, as I suggested it should—and, to be fair, one or two members of the Council agreed with me that it should—we might have clarified even the president's mind on that.

Mr. Peyton

Will the right hon. Gentleman take an early opportunity to shed a little light on them, for the benefit of the House of Commons?

Mr. Silkin

I think that it might be of advantage—I will speak to my right hon. Friend the Lord President about it—if before the next meeting of the Council of Fisheries Ministers it were possible for us to discuss these matters ; I agree that they are complicated and that many of them are highly technical. It would not be a bad idea at all.