HC Deb 06 December 1978 vol 959 cc1409-11
13. Mr. Charles Morrison

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he expects to complete before Christmas his consultations with the local authority associations regarding local government reorganisation.

16. Mr. Greville Janner

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many representations he has received concerning the transfer back to major city authorities of powers removed from them in recent local authority reorganisation.

Mr. Shore

The Government will be consulting the local authority associations and other bodies on the detailed proposals for organic change before legislation is introduced. I hope that these consultations can be completed fairly early in 1979. I have received representations on this issue from the local authority associations, from the nine major non-metropolitan cities, from a group of medium-sized districts, and from a large number of individual local authorities.

Mr. Morrison

In his recent Guildhall speech the Prime Minister referred to restoring powers to the big nine cities, plus Norwich. Was he, in mentioning Norwich, implying that towns of that sort and size would, without exception, have powers given to them? If so, what will be the minimum size for a town before powers can be given to it? If that is not what he was implying, why did the Prime Minister mention Norwich?

Mr. Shore

I should not want to incur Mr. Speaker's displeasure by again reading to the House the statement that I made on 3rd August, which I think the House will recall, in which I set out very carefully what I had in mind for the whole range of districts which would be affected by organic change. I should like to help the hon. Gentleman with his interpretation of the Prime Minister's remarks. What the Prime Minister referred to were the big nine which, in a sense, are only distinct from others in that for them we are prepared to consider restoring education as well as other services, such as social services.

Mr. Janner

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in one of the big nine—the city of Leicester—the Tory-controlled housing committee has this week recommended the slashing of the housing programme in this stress area from the original figure of 1,000 to 250? Does he not feel that this doctrinaire, despicable act is scarcely likely to encourage the return to Leicester of powers which in other respects it would be so welcome to have back?

Mr. Shore

I heard of the recommendation of the housing committee in Leicester virtually to halve its housing programme this year. I believe that that decision has yet to be reported to the full council. That disturbs me because it is happening in far too many Conservative-controlled authorities where there is an undoubted need for rented housing. That is to be deplored.

I hope that the House will appreciate my difficulty. Only a few days ago we allocated resources to each of the housing district authorities on the basis of their considered requests to us for their housing programmes. It makes for chaos to have these sudden changes and lurches in housing policy at the beginning of a housing year.

Mr. Heseltine

Is the Secretary of State aware that the collapse of his public sector housing programme is taking place in Labour as well as Conservative-controlled areas because of the housing costs imposed by the Government?

If the Prime Minister was referring in his speech at the Mansion House to the big nine cities, why did he refer to Norwich?

Mr. Shore

In his Mansion House speech the Prime Minister was referring to our popular proposal to help to undo the worst nonsenses of the 1972 Act. That is what we intend to do. Our proposals go well beyond the big nine. For the social services, the proposals will include the possibility of Norwich and a number of other cities of a similar size regaining those powers which they were able to manage sensibly before.

It is extraordinary that the hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) should make that point about the housing programme. Between two-thirds and 70 per cent. of housing authorities are now in the hands of the Conservative Party. I he hon. Gentleman and his colleagues constantly urge that those authorities should cut back. The hon. Gentleman should not attempt to duck that responsibility.

Mr. Ashley

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the local authorities which are to have their powers restored to them will wish to congratulate him and the Government on their firm action against the extraordinary proposition from some county councils? They would appreciate it if the Minister could specify as soon as possible which powers are to be restored.

Mr. Shore

I am anxious that the matter should progress beyond the stage that we had reached when I made my statement on 3rd August. That is what we shall be doing as soon as we embark upon the consultations. I believe that there is wide support on this side of the House, but I do not accept that this measure will not command considerable support from the Opposition.