HC Deb 05 December 1978 vol 959 cc1197-8
1. Mr. Michael Spicer

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will detail the expenditure so far actually incurred on the building of regional secure units.

The Minister of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Mr. Roland Moyle)

I refer the hon. Member to my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Ormskirk (Mr. Kilroy-Silk) yesterday.

Mr. Spicer

Is the Minister aware that an incredibly small proportion of the moneys which his Department has allocated to regional authorities is being spent on regional secure accommodation? This amounts to a national scandal, and as a result 1,000 people who are mentally ill are languishing in prison. How long will his Department continue to connive with the regional authorities in this matter?

Mr. Moyle

It is not a national scandal, and we are not conniving. We have told regional authorities that if they cannot spend the money on regional secure units they should spend it on alternative psychiatric care. They are doing that. I expect regional secure units to be operational from the early 1980s onwards.

Mr. Madden

Will the Minister give a clear assurance that he will not agree to the closure of any community home until he has carried out the fullest investigation into the recommendations made for closure by any children's regional committee?

Mr. Moyle

If my hon. Friend will table a Question on that matter, I shall do my best to answer it.

Mr. Patrick Jenkin

What discussions has the Minister had with his own union —NUPE—whose declared policy is to oppose the siting of regional secure units in the grounds of existing mental hospitals? Does he realise that this has led to considerable problems at the Prestwich hospital and others? Will the Minister deal with this as a matter of urgency because it is causing great anxiety?

Mr. Moyle

I have had discussions, and I have been to Prestwich hospital. I am aware of the problems, but I do not think that we should exaggerate them as an obstacle to the creation of regional secure units. These units are, after all, new concepts. They were ordered about four years ago. They require extensive planning and consultation. There is also the question of tying them in with the interim regional secure units. I think that we should put the matter in perspective.