HC Deb 25 April 1978 vol 948 cc1171-3
Q1. Mr. Mike Thomas

asked the Prime Minister when he last met the TUC.

The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)

I met representatives of the TUC on 28th February. Further meetings will be arranged as necessary.

Mr. Thomas

Following the Question to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, I shall refrain from suggesting that a neutron bomb might be dropped here and that it would have the advantage of preserving the building and doing away with the rest of us, and will confine myself to asking my right hon. Friend whether he will discuss with the TUC the question of the poll carried out for the Sunday Times, which appeared last Sunday. It shows that, far from accepting the views of the Leader of the Opposition, the British people reject reducing taxes as a way of using North Sea oil revenues and prefer creating jobs and stimulating industry. Has my right hon. Friend studied that poll, and will he discuss it with the TUC?

The Prime Minister

My recollection is that, if the poll is to be believed, there was a substantial group of people who believed that regenerating industry came first, together with finding alternative sources for our oil when it eventually runs out. I believe that they put tax cuts below that. That is in fact the policy that the Government put forward in the White Paper, and I am very happy if there is some confirmation of it.

Mr. Peter Bottomley

May I ask the Prime Minister whether when he next meets the TUC there can be, following that discussion, an open and public debate, not confined to the economc committee of the TUC and the Prime Minister, about the future level of pay settlements—whether it is called phase 4 or anything else? Can the whole country be allowed into the discussion about the future level of pay increases and the consequent effects on inflation and unemployment?

The Prime Minister

I am not aware that anyone is stopping a public debate. Indeed. I have heard quite a lot of public debate about pay policy. The question is at what stage the Government should join in, and on that I reserve my rights.

Mr. Pavitt

In his contacts with the TUC, will my right hon. Friend direct his attention to Hansard of 14th April, dealing with trade union matters, which showed beyond a peradventure that however much those on the Opposition Front Bench might think they had an understanding with the trade unions they would never be able to deliver because of the voices behind them?

The Prime Minister

I always believe that there is a prospect of educating the Opposition, and I—[An HON. MEMBER: "My right hon. Friend is an incurable optimist."] My hon. Friends believe in the fallibility of man, whereas I believe in his redemption. I still believe that it is possible for the Opposition to work with the Trades Union Congress, provided the Opposition repudiate many of the policies they are following at present.

Mr. Tim Renton

When the Prime Minister next meets the TUC, will he explain why the Treasury's latest forecast of current account surplus for this year, at £750 million, is only about half the forecast it made just a few months ago? In view of the alarming recent trade figures, does the Prime Minister think that even that reduced forecast will be met?

The Prime Minister

I would not attach as much importance to forecasts as the hon. Gentleman apparently does. I beg him to turn to a consideration of some of the things that are actually happening instead of forecasts that may never take place.