HC Deb 18 April 1978 vol 948 cc232-4
5. Mr. Silvester

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what discussions she has held with the University Grants Committee on financial support to the universities.

Mr. Oakes

My right hon. Friend discussed the subject extensively when she met the committee on 17th November last, and the firm and indicated figures of recurrent grant for the years 1978–79 to 1981–82 which she announced on 10th April took its views into account.

Mr. Silvester

Why do current grant and the provisional figures that have been quoted make no allowance for the rectification of the demoralising anomaly in university teachers' pay?

Mr. Oakes

As the hon. Gentleman knows, negotiations on this subject are continuing. The figures anticipate pay rises of between 6 per cent. and 10 per cent and price rises of between 6 per cent. and 7 per cent. As my right hon. Friend and I have told the House, if there were substantial increases in those figures as a result of the negotiations on university teachers' pay, the cash limits would be altered accordingly.

Mr. Beith

Is the Minister aware that the latter part of his reply will be very much welcomed by those who believe that it is the Government who are resisting any negotiated attempt to get the anomaly put right more quickly? Will he make clear that if Committee B could propose tomorrow a rapid rectification, it would have his support?

Mr. Oakes

I hope that the matter can be resolved quickly. The whole House feels that university teachers have been extremely patient. The industrial action that has been proposed, particularly the refusal to mark examination papers, would not help the negotiations and would create a great deal of hardship for many students. I hope that it is resolved before then.

Mr. Ron Thomas

Does my hon. Friend agree that the large sums of public expenditure devoted to universities are a clear example of public money being provided without any public accountability? Is it not time that the Government looked at the relationship between the Government and the providers of the money and the universities? We are denied any opportunity of asking Questions on industrial relations or other matters involved with universities, and it is time that this was changed.

Mr. Oakes

It is an ancient system in this country that the financing of universities goes via the University Grants Committee, and I would not want to change the system substantially. I have never found that my hon. Friend in particular or other hon. Members have felt inhibited from asking Questions about matters concerning universities and union representation.

Mr. Welsh

May I draw the Minister's attention to the concern expressed by Dr. Jack Gray and the Scottish Association for Asian Studies about cut-backs and the possible withdrawal of these courses from Scottish universities? Will the hon. Gentleman meet the UGC and press that funds should be made available to maintain these courses at present levels?

Mr. Oakes

I shall make the hon. Gentleman's views known to the committee, though it is probably aware of the matters to which he has referred Perhaps I can discuss the matter with the committee at our next meeting.