HC Deb 12 April 1978 vol 947 cc1383-5
13. Mr. Rost

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with progress on the improvement of thermal insulation on the nation's public and private buildings.

Mr. Shore

Further energy saving measures were referred to by my right hon. Friend yesterday in the course of his Budget Statement.

To promote the insulation of the private housing stock, I intend shortly to introduce legislation providing for a scheme of grants to private householders in respect of specified basic insulation measures undertaken under the scheme. The scheme will be brought into effect as soon as possible after the legislation is passed. Grant will be at the rate of 66 per cent. of certified expenditure, subject to a maximum grant of £50. Local authorities have agreed to administer the scheme: discussions are taking place with the local authority associations on the details. The scheme will be kept as simple as possible. This is of course in addition to the measures announced on 12th December by the Secretary of State for Energy for local authority housing.

Mr. Rost

While welcoming the Government's belated recognition that many owner-occupiers are just as much in need of assistance with their insulation as council house tenants, may I suggest that the Secretary of State for Energy should not have excluded them and discriminated against them in the first place? Would the Minister tell us the maximum grant available under the scheme? Will it provide for adequate insulation, rather more so than the scheme that provides inadequate insulation for council house tenants?

Mr. Shore

I do not accept that the intention was ever discriminatory. We had to think through the arrangements to assist people in the private sector as well as in the public sector, and only three or four months have separated the announcement of the local authority measures and those that I have just announced today relating to the private sector. What we are offering is basic insulation of the kind that most people think is worth doing—insulation of loft spaces, lagging of water tanks and also of pipes in the loft space. The maximum amount available is £50, or 66 per cent. of the cost, whichever is lower.

Mr. Spriggs

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the most effective thermal insulation can be provided by the use of double of even triple glazing? What steps is he prepared to take to encourage the use of double glazing?

Mr. Shore

I am aware that substantial savings can be made with double glazing as with other ways of saving heating in houses. But the sensible thing for us to do when millions of houses in this country are almost totally uninsulated is to get on with the job of saving energy in the most cost-effective way. That is what we propose.

Mr. Michael Latham

Has the Secretary of State talked to any builders lately about the £50 figure? Such a piffling amount would not insulate one-quarter of a loft.

Mr. Shore

There is no difference between those figures and the sums that we indicated for the local authority housing programme. I do not think that I agree with the hon. Member. It is the experience of most people that relatively small measures of insulation—of loft space, water tank lagging, and pipes leading up to the loft—are very cost-effective and inexpensive to carry out.

Mr. Rost

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that answer, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.