HC Deb 11 April 1978 vol 947 cc1166-8
7. Mr. Budgen

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will encourage the expansion of the private medical sector outside the National Health Service.

14. Mr. Michael Morris

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will encourage the expansion of the private medical sector outside the National Health Service.

Mr. Roland Moyle

No, Sir.

Mr. Budgen

Is the Minister aware that in September last year there were about 6,000 qualified nurses registered unemployed and that of that number about 250 were in the West Midlands? Does he agree that an expansion of private sector medicine would rescue some of those nurses from the misery and humiliation of not having a job?

Mr. Moyle

There are many reasons for the non-employment of nurses in the NHS, but as a matter of fact the number of nurses employed in the Health Service increased from 163,000 in 1974 to nearly 176,000 in 1976, and the number has increased substantially since then.

Mr. Michael Morris

As the trade union movement has its own private hospital in North London, would it now not be politically more honest and economically more sensible to encourage a mixed economy in health care?

Mr. Moyle

No, Sir. The Department, my right hon. Friend and I are committed to a National Health Service free at the point of use—and a public health service at that.

Mr. Pavitt

Does my hon. Friend recall that in recent answers to me he pointed out that there is an acute shortage of operating theatre nurses? In view of the fact that the private sector is not interested in such subjects as geriatric care and mental health but is concerned only with dramatic operations, will he now add to the criteria of the Health Services Board in permitting new private hospitals to be built?

Mr. Moyle

The Health Services Board, under the Health Services Act 1976, subsequently consolidated, has the duty of deciding on these matters.

Hon. Member

Turn round. We cannot hear.

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is ineffective to turn one's back on one half of the House because the House does not hear what is being said.

Mr. Cyril Smith

Is the Minister aware that there is also an acute shortage of nurses in child nursing, especially at hospitals such as Booth Hall, Manchester? If he accepts that this is the position, does he agree that it will be better to retrain some of the nurses who are now unemployed, so that they may undertake child nursing within the National Health Service rather than to encourage the private sector of nursing?

Mr. Moyle

I do not accept that there is a national shortage of nurses who are prepared to undertake child nursing. There may be local shortages in various parts of the country. If retraining is to take place, it must be done voluntarily on the part of the nurses concerned. But I am sure that local area health authorities will do their best to meet any local shortages.

Mr. Blenkinsop

Does my hon. Friend agree that any expansion of the private service almost inevitably leads to some restriction on NHS facilities? Is that not what the Opposition have always wanted?

Mr. Moyle

I hope that when the General Election takes place the electorate will take note of the fact that the Opposition are seeking to increase the private health sector at the expense of the public health sector. Therefore, my hon. Friend's point is valid. The Health Services Board must take this matter into account, including private development.

Mr. Boscawen

Has not the tragic waste of medical resources, shown by the fact that there are unemployed nurses and lengthening queues, shown that the philosophy of phasing out hospital pay beds and not encouraging the private sector has been hopelessly ill-timed, has encouraged queue-jumping within the NHS, and has been politically motivated?

Mr. Moyle

That supplementary question is founded on a large number of misconceptions. Most of the pay beds that have been phased out of the NHS up to now have been unused or underused.