HC Deb 10 April 1978 vol 947 cc954-5
6. Mr. Hugh Jenkins

asked the Secretary of State for Industry to what extent he has subsidised private companies with public money since 1974 to date.

The Under-Secretary of State for Industry (Mr. Bob Cryer)

Including an estimated expenditure of £397 million for 1977–78, the subsidies, current grants and capital grants paid to undertakings in those parts of the private sector for which my Department is responsible are forecast to total £1,849 million, at 1977 survey prices, for the years 1974–75 to 1977–78 inclusive.

Mr. Jenkins

Is not that a huge sum of public money? Will my hon. Friend give further details of this in the Official Report, so that hon. Members can put down Questions in individual cases and discover what is happening to this money and whether any of it is wrongly disappearing into private pockets?

Mr. Cryer

My hon. Friend is quite right in saying that it is a huge sum for support to industry under the Industry Act 1972. My hon. Friend will no doubt recall that during the period of office of the Conservative Government the sums were in no way published. It was not until the advent of the Labour Government that the sums payable under the Act were published in Trade and Industry. But I will take note of what my hon. Friend has said and see what information I can publish in the Official Report.

Mr. Adley

Will the Minister tell us how much tax is being paid by all these private companies to subsidise public expenditure? Will he also publish this figure?

Mr. Cryer

The hon. Gentleman has raised an interesting point. He will know that there are 100 per cent. tax allowances on investment in plant and machinery, and the Government have generously given stock appreciation relief, so that the tax incentives to investment and to encourage industry cost several billion pounds a year to the Revenue.

Mr. Robert Hughes

Does my hon. Friend recall that the White Paper entitled "The Challenge of North Sea Oil" gave the Government's strategy on investment in industry through the NEB? Will my hon. Friend say how this can be achieved without compulsory planning agreements so that public money is not wasted in the way he has just announced?

Mr. Cryer

Certainly the progress with planning agreements has been extremely disappointing. In view of the very encouraging way in which the Government have treated private industry, it seems reasonable for the Government to expect a degree of co-operation towards planning agreements so that a greater degree of planned investment can take place in this country.

Mr. Norman Lamont

Is it not the case that nearly all wealth in this country is created by the private sector and hardly any at all by the public sector, and that these so-called handouts are simply transfers from companies back to themselves? If the Under-Secretary were really serious about the health of industry, would he not point out that industry, quite apart from PAYE contributions, rates, national insurance contributions and corporation tax, is paying three times what it receives in so-called handouts?

Mr. Cryer

I am most interested in what the hon. Gentleman has said. When he and his party next talk about four years of Socialism, perhaps they will bear in mind the remarks that he has just made—that, in fact, the majority contribution which he claims is from the private side of industry. When the hon. Gentleman complains about such matters as a lack of investment or the level of unemployment, perhaps he will bear his remarks in mind.