HC Deb 04 April 1978 vol 947 cc223-5
Mr. Hal Miller

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the basis for the calculation of £19.50 to be paid weekly free of tax to those taking advantage of the youth opportunities scheme.

Mr. Harold Walker

I am informed by the Manpower Services Commission that the weekly allowance of £19.50 paid to those taking advantage of the youth opportunities programme was calculated after careful consideration of current levels of supplementary and unemployment benefit, of allowances payable under existing schemes and of normal remuneration levels for young people in employment.

Mr. Miller

Does the Minister really think that a tax-free benefit of that order is the best introduction to working life for young people? Does he understand the feeling of outrage of pensioners receiving £17.90 a week who have earned and contributed to that?

Mr. Walker

I am astonished that the hon. Gentleman should be criticising the allowances for being too high. There is a need for a proper balance to ensure that, on the one hand, the allowance is large enough to provide incentive to young people drawing benefits but not so high, on the other hand, that it acts as a disincentive for young people to take up normal employment or to continue or resume full-time education.

Mrs. Dunwoody

Does my hon. Friend accept that this very welcome measure will be a positive step in finding employment for young people? However, will he be careful to co-ordinate his attitudes with the Department of Education and Science to make sure that amounts of money are available to ensure that people receive adequate training at the same time?

Mr. Walker

Yes, I gave my hon. Friend the assurance that in the development of those measures and in their application we are working in the closest liaison with the Manpower Services Commission and with the Department of Education and Science. I stress that the youth opportunities programme is primarily one of work preparation and work experience and is aimed at providing young people with experience of work and with an understanding of the work environment and is a preparation to help them to enter full-time employment.

Mr. Freud

Will the Minister watch the effect of this programme on places in further education? Secondly, is he aware that a young man taking up agriculture is currently on a wage of £25.80, which after deductions leaves him with £21.58 per week? This is £2.08 more than the youth opportunities programme would pay, and the employer would be £3.10 better off for creating a new job than he would be if he paid his part of the contribution himself. Is this not a very bad way to treat an industry?

Mr. Walker

Let me emphasise again that the purpose of the youth opportunities programme is not to provide young people as cheap labour for anyone but to to provide them with work preparation and work experience. Part of the application of the scheme will be that young people will not be on a sustained task for long periods.

The level of the allowance has been fixed by the Manpower Services Commission on the basis that I have already given to the House, on the assumption that it will be a standard rate and will operate in a way which will not provide incentives for employers or others to enter into competition for those young people.

Mr. Christopher Price

Does my hon. Friend accept that one implication of paying this £19 under the programme, which is very welcome, is that the Government must do something about education maintenance allowances for young people who very often sit at a desk next to some of these youngsters on the youth opportunities programme and who decide to stay in education but receive no maintenance allowance or grant?

Mr. Walker

I understand the strength of feeling about education maintenance allowances, but that is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science rather than for the Department of Employment.

Mr. Madel

As the youth opportunities programme depends on an adequate number of supervisors and instructors to assist in the courses that are offered, can the Minister say what is the current shortage of instructors and supervisors, particularly in skillcentres, and what is being done to overcome this by September, when we are assured that all these schemes will be fully operational?

Mr. Walker

The youth opportunities programme has only just got under way. It is a little early to say what the staffing shortfalls may be. The hon. Gentleman may be confusing with the youth opportunities programme and its staffing needs the undoubted shortages that there are of instructors in the Government's skillcentres. One of the problems is pay. We are anxious about this and are doing what we can to remedy the shortage.