Royal Ulster Constabulary (Hansard, 24 November 1977)

§ 7. Mr. Whitehead
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is satisfied with the procedures for the interrogation of suspects carried out by the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

§ 8. Mr. Wall
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will investigate the allegations about the conduct of the Royal Ulster Constabulary in the light of a recent Thames Television documentary film.

§ 16. Mr. Molyneaux
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what further steps he has in mind for combating the current campaign of unfounded and generalised allegations of misconduct against the Royal Ulster Constabulary which is designed to undermine the morale of the force and the confidence of the public.

§ Mr. Mason
The detailed procedures laid down by the Chief Constable for the questioning of suspects include specific safeguards against the possibility of deliberate ill-treatment. Any complaints against the RUC are thoroughly investigated. Those alleging a criminal offence are referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions, who decides whether to proceed against those concerned. Details of every complaint and of the subsequent inquiry are open to scrutiny by an independent Police Complaints Board.

§ Mr. Whitehead
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the serious allegations made by Thames Television recently about interrogation procedures in Castlereagh ought to be investigated by his own Department, particularly as they were based on the testimony of a number of doctors? Does he not think that that is necessary, both because such procedures as were alleged—if, indeed, they happened—would be in contravention of 1735 Section 6 of the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act and also because they would be a blemish on the reputation of the RUC, which has been gaining much more widespread general acceptability in the Province as a whole under Chief Constable Newman?

§ Mr. Mason
No. I have not felt that the accusations were strong enough for my Department or myself to intervene. The Thames Television programme on the occasion referred to was riddled with unsubstantiated accusations. I said that it was irresponsible and insensitive, and I still believe that it was. That was the third programme that Thames Television had put out. The first was about the black side of the Queen's visit; the second was a film about prison conditions in Northern Ireland, within 48 hours of which the senior prison officer was murdered; and on this last occasion the Chief Constable had to issue an instruction, on the same night as that film went out, to let every policeman in Northern Ireland know that his life was at greater risk than before.

§ Mr. Wall
Would it not have been in the public interest if the producer of the programme had notified the right hon. Gentleman of his anxieties and asked for an inquiry, instead of giving widespread publicity to unsubstantiated allegations, which can only undermine the integrity of the security forces?

§ Mr. Mason
I do not think that reporters or television producers should operate in that fashion, or that it is right for me to be the referee or the judge. It so happens that Thames Television is a member of the IBA. It has a code of conduct, and it believes that it worked within it. I am sorry that it allowed the programme to go out.
But I must warn the House that we are going through a difficult phase. When the RUC is having such good attrition rates against terrorists—UVF or Provisional IRA—its major weapon is propaganda. There is, no doubt, a propaganda wave against the success of the RUC. Secondly, the House should remember that every one of the terrorists who are held and feel that there is sufficient evidence against them, and go to gaol, will register a complaint, because if he does not, when he goes into gaol his mates will want to know why he has not complained, and will treat him accordingly.

§ Mr. Molyneaux
Does the Secretary of State feel that it is significant that every time the terrorists are under pressure their allies come to the rescue with all manner of allegations against the security forces in general?

§ Mr. Mason
Yes. It could be good copy; it could be good television. The reporters may feel that they have been taken on, but they do not mind, if it is good copy. I am absolutely against Press censorship but I feel that in the conditions of Northern Ireland, Press men and people connected with the media must act responsibly and with a proper degree of sensitivity.

§ Mr. Biggs-Davison
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that we are at one with him in the remarks that he has just made, and that we agree with him that censorship is abhorrent? But have not the BBC and the IBA a moral responsibility to place a higher value on the lives of police officers and prison officers—one recalls that Mr. Irvine's murder followed his television interview—than on sensational programmes, which the right hon. Gentleman ironically described as "good television"? Have these authorities, with their responsibility to the British people, ignored the representations that the Secretary of State made, supported by my hon. Friend the Member for Abingdon (Mr. Neave)?

§ Mr. Mason
First, one has to recognise that cheque-book television is much more dramatic and dangerous than cheque-book journalism. It can quickly frighten and it can more easily incite. We have had an example of that. All I say is that within Northern Ireland that is self-evident and should be taken into consideration.
Finally, the Chief Constable's report is available for everyone to see. Last year, papers relating to the investigation of 1,110 complaints were forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions—an independent person. Criminal prosecutions were directed in 38 cases, there was no prosecution in 868, and 204 were still pending at the end of the year. One reason why I do not intervene at this stage is to prove to the House that the police are not beyond the law. If they are guilty of a criminal offence, they will be treated accordingly.

§ 13. Mr. Canavan
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he next expects to meet the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

§ Mr. Mason
I have regular meetings with the Chief Constable, and expect to meet him again next week.

§ Mr. Canavan
In view of recent allegations about police brutality at Castlereagh and elsewhere and the fact that in the first instance the RUC investigates these complaints against itself, will my right hon. Friend discuss with the Chief Constable the question whether it would be fairer to extend the independent element of inquiry into police complaints by giving the new Police Board the responsibility of investigating all complaints against the police, including complaints of criminal misbehaviour by the police?

§ Mr. Mason
I hope that my hon. Friend will follow this matter carefully. The independent Police Complaints Board which has been established in Northern Ireland has been operative since 1st September this year. Complaints and reports go to the Board, and if it wishes, it can make a further scrutiny of those complaints.

§ Mr. Bowden
When the Secretary of State next sees the Chief Constable will he consider with him the advisability of publishing all the evidence that he has of deliberate plots and schemes that have been prepared by the IRA to discredit the RUC, particularly in relation to self-inflicted injuries, and will he make this information known?

§ Mr. Mason
I shall draw the hon. Gentleman's remarks to the attention of the Chief Constable. But if the hon. Gentleman were a regular reader of the Irish Press he would have seen that the Chief Constable has often revealed information about proven cases of prisoners inflicting wounds on themselves and trying to use that as evidence against the RUC. It is often published in the Northern Ireland Press.

§ Mr. Carson
Does the Secretary of State agree that, because of the difficult task facing the RUC and the danger that it faces day after day it is high time that he allowed it to have the weapons that have been promised for so long? Vehicles are long overdue for delivery. The RUC 1738 should be equipped with these vehicles and weapons immediately.

§ Mr. Mason
The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong. All the M1 carbines that the RUC wanted have now been delivered, and training has taken place. I have increased the establishment of the vehicles, and the RUC is receiving them now. Almost all the vehicles which were required—properly protected—have been delivered.

§ Mr. Fitt
Does my right hon. Friend agree with the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for Derby, North (Mr. Whitehead) that many professional medical men—doctors who have taken an oath—have put their reputation at stake? They have made the allegations as well. In the interests of everyone, and particularly in the interests of the police, will my right hon. Friend agree to afford such facilities as will decide them one way or another?

§ Mr. Mason
As regards affording facilities, my hon. Friend will know that Amnesty International has decided to go to the Province to make an investigation itself, and I have decided that it will get full co-operation. The organisation will have explained to it the complaints procedures. We shall give it what information we can, but not on individual cases because most of those are sub judice. I have no fear of the organisation coming to the Province and making a full examination.
I am aware of doctors' complaints, but I also know of proven cases of people under examination inflicting wounds upon themselves. I also know of those who had injuries before they went in and who after their 48 hours' interrogation refused to allow a doctor to examine them so that they could try to prove on coming out that they had been injured. We have to look at both sides.