HC Deb 17 November 1977 vol 939 cc741-4
4. Mr. Steen

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what administrative arrangements exist within his Department for dealing with urban problems.

8. Mr. David Hunt

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what administrative arrangements exist within his Department for dealing with urban deprivations.

9. Mr. MacKay

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what administrative arrangements exist within his Department for dealing with urban deprivation.

10. Sir W. Elliott

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what administrative arrangements exist within his Department for dealing with urban deprivation.

Mr. John

As announced by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 6th April this year, responsibility for the urban programme and associated work has been transferred to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment and my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Wales.

My Department maintains close liaison with the Department of the Environment and the Welsh Office over those aspects of inner city policy which bear upon race relations and other matters for which my right hon. Friend has a responsibility.

Mr. Steen

Does the Minister realise that all that is left of the community development project which was set up by the Prime Minister when he was Home Secretary in 1968, and which has spent £5 million in research into urban problems, is a part-time lady selling booklets in his Department? Will he tell the House what recommendations of the community development project, if any, he is proposing to implement?

Mr. John

The definition of a part-time lady would probably defy statutory analysis. The community development projects have been completed and their results made known. That is what my Department is now considering. That experience has shown that a different approach is probably needed to deal with the problems of urban deprivation. The fact that the previous projects have had a negative result is none the less valuable, because they teach us what not to do, if not what to do.

Mr. Hunt

Does the Minister know that the comprehensive community programme set up by his Department was supposed to run a multi-million pound experiment in Wirral but that no one has ever heard of it? Can he explain what happened, what is now happening, and what is the connection between the comprehensive community programme and the recent statement by the Secretary of State for the Environment that Wirral is to become a partnership authority?

Mr. John

The decision to initiate any CCP project was to be taken with the agreement of the local authority concerned. At the stage to which the hon. Member referred we chose to do one pilot programme before entering into a wider area. A CCP-type of approach, whether or not it is so called, is inherent in the inner city programme. Therefore, the partnership approach which the hon. Gentleman mentioned as being dealt with by my right hon. Friend will be adopted in dealing with the partnership agreement.

Mr. MacKay

Does the Minister agree that what he described in his answer is little more than a comic operation? Will he confirm that he will pass anything that is left of it over to the Department of the Environment, because people in urban areas are becoming very worried that the Government are all talk and no go on this matter?

Mr. John

I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman is talking about in referring to a comic operation. Is it the part-time lady, or is it the CCP project as a whole? The hon. Gentleman must understand that the Government have devoted a considerable amount of study to the inner city problems this year, and my right hon. Friend will not take lightly the genuine problems of the inner city areas, of which we are aware.

Mr. Molloy

Can my hon. Friend say whether he or our right hon. Friend intends to hold discussions with members of London borough councils which have not been included in the pairing arrangements in relation to certain aspects of urban deprivation? My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said that they were not included, but he agreed that they had special problems and said that he was prepared to discuss these with them. May we have an assurance from my hon. Friend that his Department also will be involved?

Mr. John

Whenever my right hon. Friend is involved in the discussions, my Department will be involved in relation to race relations and other matters for which it is responsible.

Mr. Budgen

Does the Minister agree that one of the greatest problems of the urban areas is the acceptance of mass immigration? In that connection, will he comment on the remarks made yesterday by Lord Scarman, first, that there is a risk that in seeking to do justice to those who are disadvantaged we run the risk of doing injustice to others, and—secondly, that the race relations legislation should be only temporary?

Mr. John

In my experience, with the exception of a very few antique Acts, there are not many measures that can be called permanent, so all legislation is temporary in that sense. We believe that the Race Relations Act is an absolutely necessary step to protect minorities in the community from disadvantage and discrimination on the ground of their colour or their race. I hope that that commands general acceptance in the House. To blame immigrants for all the problems of the inner cities is a grotesque travesty which does no credit to the hon. Gentleman and does no good in finding a solution of the problem.