HC Deb 16 November 1977 vol 939 cc562-3
13. Mr. Ron Lewis

asked the Secretary of State for Transport which organisations he has so far met in the course of his consultations on the White Paper proposals on local railway services; and when he expects to complete this process of consultation.

29. Mr. Cowans

asked the Secretary of State for Transport which organisations he has so far met in the course of his consultations on the White Paper proposals on local railway services; and when he expects to complete this process of consultation.

Mr. William Rodgers

I have not yet met any organisations, nor have I set a timetable for consultations.

Mr. Lewis

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these proposals have met with general hostility, not only from the Labour Party and the TUC but from the Tory-controlled county councils, which do not want to be saddled with the blame for unpopular decisions affecting local railway services? Will he now re-examine these proposals and, in his review, encourage the use of all forms of transport?

Mr. Rodgers

Yes. My hon. Friend is right to say that these proposals have not had an enthusiastic reception. They were one of the "green" parts of the White Paper and I hoped that they would encourage thoughtful and constructive discussion of the problems raised. I still hope that that discussion will take place. There is no prospect of legislating on this matter in the immediate future.

Sir Bernard Braine

Has the Minister had any representations from commuter organisations, bearing in mind the continuing deterioration of commuter services in South Essex and the astonishing admission by British Rail that it can do nothing to improve them until the 1980s? Will the Minister invite commuter organisations in South-East Essex and Members of Parliament to see him in order to discuss this matter?

Mr. Rodgers

I generally find that invitations are not necessary for hon. Gentlemen, and, for that matter, members of the public, who invite themselves. I take the hon. Gentleman's point, which is valid. Many commuters are not particularly happy with the services that they enjoy. With respect to the hon. Gentleman, it is a different issue from the one involving a local option. One of the arguments for a local option is that it will enable people who live in the locality to decide how best they want public transport to be run.

Mr. Bagier

Does the Minister agree that the local option proposals are seen by many as passing the buck from the central body to local authorities? Does he not see the danger, since this is seen also as the thin end of the wedge or as decentralisation of the railway system? Does he further agree that if that takes place it will be disastrous to the industry?

Mr. Rodgers

My hon. Friend properly draws attention to some of the supposed disadvantages of the proposals. There are arguments both ways, but we must try to find a solution to the problem of those railway lines that cost large sums of money to maintain. It must be decided against the background of those railway lines, mainly to meet local needs, and also the view expressed in the House today that fares should not rise disproportionately to inflation.

Mr. Penhaligon

Will the Minister confirm that we have met and discussed these proposals, but that they have received little or no support?

Mr. Rodgers

I think that that is a fair rendering of the situation.