HC Deb 09 March 1977 vol 927 cc1387-9
9. Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what he understands by the term "integrated transport policy".

Mr. William Rodgers

An adequate reply would require not a sentence but a speech, which would explain how the thoughtful planning of transport resources can contribute significantly towards meeting the country's economic and social needs.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

Does the Minister realise that that reply is like saying "Lord give me chastity but not yet"? Does he agree that an integrated transport policy must be constantly sought but that it can never be final because the parameters are changing and being up-dated all the time? Does he further agree that urgently required transport needs, such as the completion of motorway schemes, should not be delayed while the Government, of what- ever complexion, are searching for a will-o'-the-wisp integrated transport policy?

Mr. Rodgers

That was an ingenious question and, rather to my surprise, I was trying to find a point with which I disagreed. What the hon. and gallant Member said about change is absolutely true. We must recognise the changing needs in transport and the need for a flexible system. At the same time when we are pursuing major policy questions we should not delay necessary steps to solve current problems.

Mr. Fitch

When working on an integrated transport policy will the Minister consult Mr. Jack Jones, who believes that the case for road transport has not been put strongly enough?

Mr. Rodgers

I have frequent consultations with all the transport unions. It is important to preserve a balance between investment in road and rail and between the different modes and types of transport. When we discussed these matters in the debate recently my hon. Friend made an important contribution.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Does the Minister agree that an integrated transport policy that ended the competition between the different modes of transport would be likely to increase transport costs?

Mr. Rodgers

That might be true in certain circumstances, but calculations are not as simple as that. An element of consumer choice in transport is important.

Mr. Loyden

Does my right hon. Friend agree that an integrated transport system that was designed to meet the total needs of the community would require the public ownership of the ports, for instance, and, indeed, of the whole of the transport industry? Does the Minister agree that one cannot plan an integrated transport system unless it is publicly owned?

Mr. Rodgers

I do not entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I am well aware of his views about the extension of the public sector to the transport industry, and he has made an important point, but in a mixed economy we cannot assume that we can have more thoughtful planning of our transport system or any part of our industrial system simply by waiting for changes in ownership. We must act sooner than that.

Mr. Adley

Does the Minister agree that it is urgent that we should complete the motorway routes to our ports, particularly where there are gaps? Does he agree that that should be the first priority?

Mr. Rodgers

Yes, with some qualifications, and given that the completion of the motorway network must come within the available resources, which, as the hon. Member knows, have been constricted.